I feel sick
FSTDT is usually good for a few laughs. I went there expecting to waste some time reading other people’s ignorant comments… and I see this:
“Just recently my son Bobby came out to me. I had been worried for awhile. His teachers said most of his grades were slipping and he seemed depressed and withdrawn.
Bobby said he’d been hiding it for awhile because he was afraid I would reject him. I sat him down and told him that I loved him and that God loved him, but that his salvation was in danger if he did not resist his unnatural tempations. I told him how being gay would mean he would live a shorter life, and that if he couldnt change his orientation he could be celibate like most the ex-gays are. He started crying saying something along the lines of “I knew you wouldnt understand! You’re just like everyone else!” before running to his room and slamming the door.
What did I do wrong? I dont want to lose my son, but I fear I already have. I talked it over with his therapist, who had the ludicrous idea that homosexuality was unchangable and that trying to repress could lead to lots of psychological damage (I’ve dropped him and will try to be finding another therapist with more moral beliefs). I wouldnt be surprised if he’s the one who’s feeding my son all the homosexual propaganda about how its ‘ok’ to be gay. That, or how homosexuality has engulfed the media, making it seem ‘cool’ and ‘hip’ and how they were just another oppressed minority. You didnt have to worry about seeing two men making out on tv at my age! I dont want to sound like a fanatic, but Im worried what other effects will come out of this increasingly secular, immoral society obsessed with filth.
Am I too late? Or is it possible to save my son”
I checked the thread this was posted on, and the son later killed himself.
There are very few things that can bring me to hate someone. I understand that everyone has different world views, and that everything they say and do has a reason behind it. I know no one ever intentionally does something they know is wrong, and that there is motivation for even their most despicable actions. I’m against the death penalty, and I believe in giving people a second chance. I know Betty loved her son, and wanted to help him, in her own way.
I can say, after reading this, that I truly hate Betty, the mother of this child. It doesn’t matter to me how devoutly she believed what she was doing and saying was right; it doesn’t matter how much she loved him; it doesn’t matter how bad she feels now that he’s dead. She was a direct cause of his death, and she could have prevented it with a single apology. She deserved to die more than her son did.
But even more than that, I hate fundamentalist Christianity.
I know that’s a divisive thing to say, and I generally wouldn’t say it, but I think there’s no other word I can use here. It caused his death — if there was no Christianity, he would still be alive
Posted by probabilityZero on January 28, 2007 | Filed under: Atheism, Fucked up, Noteworthy, Opinion
I think I use the word hate more freely than you do, but this is pretty sickening. What’s worse, this is happening all over the country. Very emotional post, zero.
It looks like the mom really cared for her son, but was driven to say incredibly hurtful things because of the anti-gay nature of modern christianity. I agree on the last part. I normally wouldn’t say it either, but I fucking hate fundamentalism. If it weren’t for fundie xians spreading hateful rhetoric about homosexuality, the son would still be alive today.
wow, i feel sick too after reading that. poor kid.
Religion is poison.
I just fucking hate it all. I know there are some “moderate” groups, but it serves no purpose other than to suspend rational thought in otherwise (usually) normal people.
oh come on, the woman looks really torn up about her sons death, and she doesnt know why he did it… i think the overall christian antigay thing was the cause, and the mom was a victim too
i agree tho that its things like this that make me hate christianity
This is fucking sickening. Congrats, Betty, you drove your son to suicide!
Fuck, this makes my stomach hurt just reading it. I wish I had been there to help the kid or something; it makes me feel so powerless. How the hell are we ever going to stop this from happening when we have to go up against a huge institution like christianity?
“The Christian resolve to find the world ugly and bad has made the world ugly and bad.”
— Nietzsche
After reading that entire forum, I was appalled. Obviously, this woman realizes she made a huge mistake with her son but is unwilling to admit that. Instead, she goes on a “jesus” site to get support for her horrible decision which was: to be a non-understanding parent. She did not have to accept his lifestyle but she could have been far more loving to her child, such as: I don’t care for what your lifestyle will be however, I love you dearly as my son and you will always be important to me. But no! She had to torture him him with hellfire and damnation instead. The posts of support are truly frightening. It was so easy to dismiss her son ,as a human being in conflict, by using their “good book”. I don’t know of a single professional counselor, psychologist, etc. that’s foisting gay views on anyone as suggested by the other posters there but this is the kind of twisted mentality their religion has allowed them to put forth to others. Now she worries about her other son. I fear she’ll continue to spread the same ugly message she did with the first. Religions have no tolerance and understanding unless it is in lock step with what they determine to be valid and “moral”. Where is the morality in successfully destroying a life because of a mythical belief?
Fundamentalism kills. This woman is proof. How could she give more support to a religious belief than her own child?
God has such a great sense of humour… if there was a god of course.
I do see a kind of irony in the story, the kid is out of his misery and made his mothers life a living hell, what will her community say? I imagine something in the line of: “Betty raised a sinner. Not only was he gay, he also killed himself”.
May sound hard but the bitch deserves it. Funny thing is that she’s talking about how the media is making everyone gay. Didn’t her parents and church make her a fundie Christian? Being gay is not a choice else Bobby would have never mentioned it to his self righteous bitch mum.
Aye, I agree with ya there. That’s fucking disgusting, and don’t be ashamed to say you hate Christianity, you have many very good reasons to. One that you already mentioned. Ugh, I feel sick too.
Fuck christians. Feed them to the lions. For dessert they can eat jews & muslims as well. I’m tired of delusional idiots steering the course of humanity.
Fundamentalists are to be pitied. It’s not christianity in the truest sense of the word that distorts them, but the dogma that is propegated throughout society by its ‘leaders’. Most fundamentalist christians are weak-willed individuals who simply follow what they’re told by pastors who see their congregations as pipelines through which income flows. The hipocritical nature of the current incarnation of the religion is blatantly apparent to anyone who takes a step back and analyses it; If all sin is equal in the eyes of God, then they have no place insisting that a gay may go to hell while a liar or thief (Like many within our administration) can simply waltz into heaven after a quick apology.
Don’t blame the christ, blame fundamental christianity.
There is no christ. You may cherish the values he exemplifies, but there was no magic man who walked on water and rose from the dead. It is as true as Apollo drawing a chariot across the sky. Come out of your cave of fear and join real world. Heaven and hell are a carrot and stick act. It is as plain as the nose on my face. THE EMPEROR HAS NO CLOTHES! THE EMPEROR HAS NO CLOTHES! There is no god!
@16
There surely was a guy named Jesus walking around the middle easy about 2000 years ago. And by all accounts, he did constantly tell people to love one another. I think these facts are a bit irrefutable, wouldn’t you agree?
Whether we’re discussing the divinity of the man is another issue and one which I leave up to each and every fellow human to decide for himself. I may believe in it, but I’m not shoving it down peoples’ throats.
*Middle East
No, I do not agree, and neither do the facts. Read your history. You are misinformed. The very existence of Jesus is quite credibly, refutable.
Got a link? I’d love to check it out.
Start here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus
Then google Richard Dawkins. Keep digging, you’ll see the light.
Cool…not a lot of info, but I was pressed for time and have to leave. Either way, I’ve always felt that the important thing in the bible was the message and never let myself be distracted by obviously dogmatic teachings seeded throughout the text (or christian society). Whether there is a god or isn’t will have no effect upon how I live my life and my respect for other people. And it shouldn’t affect other people either, let alone a mother who was as close to losing her child as she was.
Have a great day everyone.
She may as well have put a gun to his head and pulled the trigger herself. I hope she realises what her and her ‘faith’ have done.
I have nothing wrong with other people’s beliefs but why does that mean they have to push them on every one around them??? And the thing that makes me sick is that she believes that being gay is what made him kill himself, not the fact that she, along with every one else he told, belittled him every day since. NICE. Feel kinda sick too…
speechless
well, aspires me to gain more wisdom.. this is only a clear example of ignorance; the smaller and more numerous ones go undetected but are equally morally indefensible in their own right
It’s sad what happened to that kid. This gives us however, a very clear line where to stand. It’s the equivalent to telling someone you deserve disabilities, you chose to be retarded, I’m so disappointed that you’re a girl. What i think would have prevented this:
The kid - Heavy scientific evidence says homosexuality results from conditions in the womb. Not his fault he was gay, although suicide wasn’t a good choice. The next kid - discuss what you’re mom would do if you we’re gay, wanted to be a tran, etc.
The Psychologist - Trying to convince someone they’re a religious fanatic is the same as telling someone you’re an alcholic. The phychologist seemed to take the wrong approach however, seeing how the mother was a fanatic.
The mother - I have no problem with religious fanaticism. I have a problem with religious fanaticism affecting other people. She needed to put in more research, deal with the issues, and not drop a psychologist before she found another. Her stubbornness was a link needed on the chain. Next time, don’t be so close minded, and learn about all issues from all sides, and realize the church route may seem to be the right route, but it’s not the one that increases life-span.
The community - The community is sub-par for allowing this depressed suicidal-gay teen to have to only resort to his mother. Some counseling with the mother, or the teen may have helped this. Even before the child was born this attitude was dangerous. Now that this has happened, its pretty obvious to get some gay acceptance.
The church - The church of course, is to blame for the belief. Religious texts are no reason to bullshit people about reality, science, and effective measures. The other two examples? Evolution not being proven (Note: I didn’t say Darwinism), and Abstinence vs Abstinence plus education (the former increases sex + STD’s). This is the starting link in the chain, without it no one would be hurting him. In this case, drop the subject, think it’s impossible for a church? Why aren’t churches breaking out in tears over everyone committing gluttony?
if there is no God, why is it bad that the boy killed himself? if he is just an animal with no future but fade to black, why are you all feeling sick? i have an idea of the answer (and yes I do believe that it is an AWFUL story and I wish I could have been there to help)
…surprised…@ religion….
read somewhere that being gay has to do w/ hormones that a person is born with (Mike said “The kid - Heavy scientific evidence says homosexuality results from conditions in the womb. Not his fault he was gay,”)…and who gave us these hormones…? Directly, parent….indirectly, God. And if God gave us hormones, why is “he” hating on people (or things) he created? Never understood why in the Christian religions (i’m not Christian so i don’t know about the different branches and stuff) are always contradictory.
Another one bites the dust
Another one bites the dust
And another one gone, and another one gone
Another one bites the dust
Hey, I’m gonna get you too
Another one bites the dust
ya know… this is weird. this is exactly what the whole world does… a whole bunch of rash generalizations…
i betcha there was as lot more at work in this story than is listed… people don’t just up and kill themselves without proper motivation… i have a hard time thinking that JUST her anti-gay sentiment caused him to do himself in… perhaps the lack of a father, or reassurance, or any of the good things i’ve been privileged to have sent him to a place where life sucked.
i know that modern Christianity has it’s issues… what significantly large group doesn’t? are we really going to go lump all the Mother Teresa’s in with the Jane Fundamentalist’s who preach hate and damnation instead of love and mercy?
those of you in the the whole “i hate christians” group are sick. you’re not going to do any good hating them…
hardball is correct, this means nothing if there is no God. the thing that is more saddening is that suicide is an unforgivable sin.
I’ve NEVER understood religious fundamentalists, let alone parents who seemingly are more in love with their faith than the world they live in, let alone their own flesh and blood. This woman made a horrible mistake and while I loathe to wish ill-will on others, I hope she lives with this for the rest of her life and at some point down the road fully realizes what happened and why. I honestly hope she doesn’t find solace in her faith in God. I may sound cruel, but as I said before, putting faith in something unseen and tainted before your own kid is just plain sick.
Look at the language you use. Look at the porn you watch. See how you steal? See how you lie? If you research the facts, you would see that the things you believe are wrong. The Bible is the best thing to fight off Christians because they don’t read it. History is a great way of fighting the non believers because they don’t know it. Just because you don’t have a belief does not mean it is wrong for me to have one. This is America’s problem in the Middle East. This is our problem from the left side. People are radical in everything, and most on this thread are hard believers against Christianity. Actually the perverse Christianity of the denominational world (which is spoken against in the Bible), but that’s beside the point. What we believe rules our lives, and it should, only if the reason is because it it does. Sorry for the essay.
yeah, this story is quite sickening
peoples beliefs are their own choice and i ahve no problem with that
but like many of you guys said, forcing them on each other is quite wrong
[...] The post in question is this one over at Talking in Circles. “Just recently my son Bobby came out to me. I had been worried for awhile. His teachers said most of his grades were slipping and he seemed depressed and withdrawn. [...]
There is a place where heaven and hell meet the earth, that place is the human mind. This poor woman helped make her sons life hell, because he could not show her his heaven. Religion bashing is pointless, if there were no religions someone would create one, and inevitably it would be used to make hell on earth as everyone has different ideas of heaven. Instead show religions as what they are supposed to be, ways of knowing, coping, and hoping when people threaten you with damnation.
You people make ME sick. You have no idea what kind of stuff was going on in that home. You have no idea if he didn’t have deeper psychological issues like depression that would have caused himself to kill himself anyway. You don’t even blame the kid for being selfish enough to take his own life simply because his mother — actually, his mother’s religion — wouldn’t accept him. You put all the responsibility on the mother even though all she did was stand her ground. She didn’t reject him, she just told him that it was wrong. He got revenge though - he hurt his own mother in the worst possible way.
It’s true that if she had said something different, this wouldn’t have happened. You may disagree with how she handled the situation. But don’t be so quick to dole out hate simply because of that. It certainly belies your insistence that there are “very few things that can bring me to hate someone.” Seems to me like you just hate everyone who doesn’t fall within your definition of common sense.
Oddly enough, I think most Christians would agree that this is a horrid situation all around, and that the boy’s suicide was tragic. I was raised Catholic, and still practice to this day. I wish the mother would have simply stated that she loved her son and told him that he was perfect just the way he was. As I said, I was raised in a religious house and was told that God created everyone, and how could you ever hate something made by God. That includes all races and sexualities. Perhaps I’m overly idealistic, but I feel the problem lies in fundamentalism. Any ideal taken to an extreme is harmful, religion is no exception. Anyone who is religious but does not believe in evolution scares the hell out of me, as does anyone who is an atheist but cannot tolerate the religious.
Many senseless wars are fought in the name of God, many others are fought in the name of nationalism. Neither of those ideals are bad… until they are taken to the level of fundamentalism.
Finally, to clear things up, the Catholic church has a negative view of homosexuality because any sex for recreation (not procreation) is a sin, and a straight couple can at least pretend. Sad that even most Christians don’t realize that. Of course, that being said, I’m considered a sinner in the eyes of my own chruch… if only more Fundies realized that and saw just how much we all had in common, perhaps we wouldn’t have to read posts like this. Of course, if Fundamentalists did realize this, they would no longer be fundies.
I call myself a Christian. At the same time, I am every bit as appalled by this as any of you. The root of the problem is not Christianity in and of itself. It is the misinterpretation of Christianity that causes such tragedies. For some reason, people tend to think that their beliefs bestow upon them some judgmental right. This “right” is what causes these fundamentalists to feel so “heart-broken” about these “sins.” The message that Jesus preached, which in response to sifumokung, we know actually happened every bit as much as we know anything in history happened (i.e., the comparison of written documents from substantially separated accounts and the consistencies between them), was that we as a people were to stop condemning each other and pointing out which behaviors are wrong and which are right, but to instead care for one another regardless of sin. In effect, regarding sin, Jesus said “I’ll take care of that part.” Somehow, that got twisted into, “You sin, you go to Hell. It’s my job to inform you of this.” Christianity is not a bad thing. The church of today and most of history seems to have missed the point. Jesus said we are all brothers. That’s why we should care for each other. We’re in this together. Christian, Muslim, Jew, Atheist, Gay, Straight, Conservative, Liberal, any other title you chose to give. It doesn’t matter. That’s what a Christian is. One who follows Christ. What did Christ do? Christ loved. I just wish more “Christians” understood that. That’s why you all hate Christianity. Not because it, in and of itself is bad, but because it’ message is so for distorted from the original that it is more recognizable amongst non-Christians than it is in the church. This is why the church of today has failed. This is why fundamentalism allows such wretched events to take place. This is why the church needs a change. This is why I’m sorry.
Am I missing something? What did she say that was so bad? She told him she loved him and God loved him, but what he was doing was wrong. Sounds like he over reacted to me. Christianity is not the reason he died. HE made the choice, nobody made him do it. Just because someone tells you the lifestyle you lead is not right, shouldn’t drive you to commit suicide, unless you yourself believe that it is wrong and the weight of conviction drives you to doing it because you feel you do not have the discipline or strength to change. Either way, it was his fault, not the mother. The mother did her job, and tried to guide her child in a loving and accepting way, WITHOUT being like everyone else in this world and telling him anything that he wants to do is ok with God.
if there were no gays, he would still be alive too.
See? It makes just as much sense as your original phrase. I can make a lot of phrases like that one:
If there were no mothers, he would still be alive
If there were no grades, he would still be alive
If there were no media, he would still be alive
If there were no FILL-HERE, he would still be alive
All you religion-bashers need to take a long look in the mirror. You are as guilty of bigotry as any Klan member ever was. It’s one thing to disagree with someone’s ideology, it’s quite another thing to hate them because of their differences, whether those differences are racial, sexual, or ideological.
More to the point — quick blaming others for someone’s actions. Responsibility is the essence of humanity. You cannot have freedom without responsibility. We ARE responsible BECAUSE we are free to choose. This man chose to end his life rather than to face adversity (whether real or perceived). It doesn’t matter what the psychological issues were — he obviously had difficulty with his identity. There may have been ideological conflicts, social conflicts. None of us can say we can understand this man’s situation fully… but whether you are a Jew in Nazi Germany, a black man in Southern America, a fat man in a skinny family, or a gay man in the Bible belt, you can choose to face the adversity, overcome it and make something beautiful and meaningful of your life, or you can throw in the towel, give up, succumb to self-pity, or even take your life. Whatever you choose to do, it is YOUR choice, and you are FULLY RESPONSIBLE for that choice.
So if you choose to be a bigot and a hater — please be honest enough to admit that you simply hate certain classes of people, and stop trying to pretend that such hatred is justifiable.
Joel, you are incorrect. Part of salvation through Christianity is REPENTANCE. Which means you admit you were wrong in the things you were doing and stop doing them. The problem with the church today is what is listed here in this section. Yes, Jesus did take care of our sin, but he did not say continue sinning and I’ll cover for you. He said, for all that you have done, I will take care of…now that you know the way, repent and turn from your old ways. People hate Christianity because of hypocrits mainly, but there are ALOT of. There is a serious problem with the church now, and that problem is that they are basically deleting the basic rules that the Bible laid out for us. You can’t do that. You can’t tell people that being a homosexual is ok and move on. There have to be morals. Basic rules you set for your own personal life. She told him he was wrong. Tough shit. So he kills himself? Sounds like he had some serious mental instabilities in my opinion. Being attracted to men was the least of his worries if this drove him to suicide.
Joel, thank you for your well written response. I am also a Christian, and like many others feel God meets us where we are at. We all sin, and I’m not here to say what is and isn’t sinning. But I believe God made us who we are, and wants us to be honest, whole people. A gay person living a staright life isn’t being honest with him/herself. I think we are getting closer to a lot of answers on why consistently (around 10%) of the population is gay. Poor Betty, and her poor son. I really feel for them both. It wasn’t her fault. She loved her son, and yet still has the right to question and struggle to respond (as any parent does) to a startling discovery. Denial is normal. Neither Betty nor her son had the support that they needed, or perhaps the time necessary to cope with such an issue. I’m not sure where they lived, so many cities, especially rural ones have such a limited gay support network, or churches open to ‘out’ members and gay couples. It would have been good for Betty to also have someone refer her to a supportive organization like PFLAG (Parents, Families, and Friends, of Lesbians and Gays). Our local chapter is held at a church in Houston. BTW, there are many people who are homophobic who aren’t fundamentalist and people in the chuurch still struggling with reconciling Biblical teachings and homosexuality. I don’t hate Betty. I think that reacting that way to people who are responding to what’s thrown at them just puts up barriers between poeple who obviously need to talk and process alittle more. How else are we going to move forward as a society?
I call bs on the entire thread. What woman, overwhelmed with grief, would post one sentence at a time? One debate-like sentence at a time?
“But wasnt it my fault for not accepting him?” Come on. I think poster is playing the role of the mother as a strawman for arguments. The “preachers” on the blog are not licensed counselors or internet savvy and are falling for it. And then you guys with an axe to grind show up. Poster sits back and looks at what he has created: a fullfledged dugg-out fark-greenlit brouhaha.
Pic of the death certificate on thesmokinggun.com or it isn’t real.
“If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own.” — Jesus, John 15:18-19
The Child Deserved What He Got.
The Same Will Come To All Gays And Lesbians.
They Might Not Kill Themselves But When
They Meet God Face To Face They Will Want
To When God Asks Them What They Have Done
With Their Lives And What Have They Learned And
What Have They Overcome.
Readsalot…I have a question for you.
How in the world can you call yourself a Christian, and tell people that being a homosexual is ok? That is mind boggling, and going back to what I have said once before…you can’t say “I’m a Christian, but I pick certain things in the Bible that I refuse to abide by.”. That’s a double negative.
These are all interesting oppinions of why and how this young man died. Saidly enough we are protray the mother as someone who hated her child, which is insanely ridiculous. She didn’t agree with his life style which is her GOD given right. Did she go about discussing this with her child no. But the bigger picture is how much hate is on this site along. You guys saying you HATE Christians is ridiculous and puts you at the same level as you say the mother is at, I guess you guys would kill your own child too??? Well I would hope not, infact think about what you are saying and then let me ask you this. Would you want your child reading this most insane post, absolutely not. Why because as people we are smart enough to realize that hate towards any group simply causes harm. Not only to the groups involved that we hate but to those who hate. As a Christian I’m not beating your doors down trying to tell you that your living in sin, but if you asked my opinion I just might…LOL. Those most intelligent remarks but a couple of people who said Christ didn’t exist just basically through out all of history which is rediculous in itself. We have not only hundereds of EYE-WITNESS accounts of Christ walking the earth but thousands. Not to include the personal journals and scribes that people wrote about Jesus as he traveled the land. So to say he’s not real or never existed makes you look like a retard who does not know how to read. I’m a history teacher and would be a fool to say history never happened when I in fact know that yesterday just past. Be realistic!!! And that Dawkins that someone spoke about is about as bright as a burnt out light bulb when it comes to talking about religion or history for that fact. He can beat around a BUSH better than George W. BUSH can. In the end it is a very sad story and one I hope we all can learn from: Christiand, athiest, muslim, budhist, liberal, or any other affiliation.
Through Chirst!
I think this is a good example of indirect murder.
This story is so amazingly horrible that it almost feels fake. Probably the best line in the whole quoted message is “I’ve dropped him and will try to be finding another therapist with more moral beliefs”. I feel so sorry for her son, so sorry for children that have to be tortured into believing this horse shit. If you read through the forum, people have realistic, humanly questions (”is masturbation wrong?”) and the answers are provided out of passages from a book written by someone thousands of years ago.
This is complete insanity.
Complete insanity to have morals to live by? To believe in something that really happened, instead of blindly refusing to believe for no apparent reason? Acting as if history never happened? Yes…I believe the latter is insanity. At it’s finest I’d like to add. The growing world has become uber retarded. I fear there is little hope for kids raised by these people. They will grow up thinking that everything in their life is ok, and history isn’t something that actually happened, you can live in your own reality and choose what really happened!!! It’s a permanent acid trip….it’s called life!
I loathe religion with a passion. End it all.
Why do you loathe religion? Because you have never seen Christ? Because people have fought wars because of it? Or because you simply can’t pick one?
This is for the people who stated that they are Christians but then later said God made us the way we are. God wrote the bible through man and do you honestly think God would contradict his own word and make people gay. As Christians we should live our life thorugh the Bible. If you think God made people gay and believe that this is true, then you are not following the Bible very well. Now I’m not trying to be some perfect Christian, because I have many problems and I am full of sin, but I admit my sin and accept it and God forgives me. But if you live in sin and refuse to repent for it. Then God does not forgive you. If you wake up in the morning and go to sleep at night without praying for the forgivness of God, Then you are not forgiven.
LEV 18:22 “‘Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is
detestable.
1CO 6:9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of
God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor
adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
ROM 1:26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their
women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.
27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and
were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with
other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
And this goes out to the people who were just bashing Christians left and right. I’m going to use a quote from a very great movie named “Contact”.
[Ellie challenges Palmer to prove the existence of God]
Palmer Joss: Did you love your father?
Ellie Arroway: What?
Palmer Joss: Your dad. Did you love him?
Ellie Arroway: Yes, very much.
Palmer Joss: Prove it.
Her father had dies when she was 7. She can physically prove that she loves him.
Through the media and other sources people get this twisted and horrible look at what Christans are like. You see those horrible Baptist from up north at the funeral homes protesting a soliders death, you see a religious fight between some people at a church or you see a history book and how it speaks about religious wars… But what you don’t see and most likely will never see is the Christans that went to New Orleans after Katrina and helped familes, or a group of high school kids that go to a homeless shelter and helped to fix the place up a bit, or the group of high school kids that flew up to Idaho to help get a small church on its feet. You’ll never see that. By the way, all of those examples I stated were from personal experience. Welcome to America. Where the media controls everything.
Mr Wilson highlights that a book written thousands of years ago is insanity. That is totally futile. If everyone lived their lives according to God’s guidance from the scriptures there would be less problems in this world to content with. When man disobeys God’s strict moral standards, then he reaps what he sows. But because man has selfish intentions who thinks he knows the answers to everything, its obvious without a doubt, its the system that is insane and its the system of things God will put an end to very soon.
Very sad indeed…
It comes down to this… the kid had the Free Will to do what he did. I believe that God gave us the Free Will to do what we please, but that doesn’t mean there won’t be any consequences. Personally, I think there is way more to life than the short years here on earth… so death is not a concern for me.
Yes, I know a lot of you hate Christians, which is fine, we were told that many would hate us. And were also told to love who hate us, and I do.
You can blame the mother, you can blame the kid, you can blame religion, but you [i]cannot[/i] blame God.
I will pray for the Kid, and for the mother, as for all those who have so much hate to share.
Dean
What if a procrastinator killed himself because everyone was making him feel inadequate–whose fault would that be?
If i’ve learned anything about Christianity (myself being a Catholic), it’s that love is the prevailing doctrine. With this form of Christianity in its purest I have no objections, but when the religion is divided in order to accentuate our differences rather than discuss them, tragic events like this happen.
The mother and her son had vastly different views on human sexuality (in my estimation a non-moral [I.E. completely separate from morality altogether] topic), but the bottom line is that God loved them both, and in placing judgments on the son (that his ways were wrong), the mother failed to love her son in his most vulnerable moment.
Any “Christian” who places judgments on each other has erred; it is not our place to judge.
Everyone is responsible for his / her actions regardless of the circumstances. Any procrastinators I know (myself included), are too laid back to ever think about killing themselves.
alright, you all seem to have a lot of comments about the mother, but did you know the kid. probably not. He had to be pretty fucked to kill himself. kill’em all let god sort the out
The sad part about this is that the boy probably died without finding God. I hope some of you will find God before you die. There is no life apart from Jesus Christ. If he would have lived to be 100 and never found God, his life would have been wasted. The bible says that when the love of God grows cold, people are given over to reprobate minds and turn to loving there own sex. That’s what’s happening now in this world of atheism where people think they have the answer to everything. The mother was wrong in that she tried to tell him that works would save him. He didn’t need to do anything but seek God with his whole heart.
Betsy’s a fucking idiot, so I feel sorry for her.
The boy sounded smart, though.
And you all sound like geniuses.
Hmmmmmmmmmm…….
The same people who are so dismissive of Christians are the ones choosing to let these not-so-radical few represent an entire culture. You pass judgement just like she did to her son.
Congrats.
You lumped yourself into the same ignorant category which you so adamantly loathe by ATTEMPTING to isolate yourself with poorly constructed intellectualism. Go back to your day job or school or otherwise meaningless routine and keep over analysing life — if it makes you feel superior or enlightened in some way, just keep doing it.
The rest of us will stay blissfully happy with ourselves.
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uhh, I realize you guys are having fun with your God-hating rhetoric that so many people are quick to jump on, but you do realize that this whole post is fake, right? You think this lady really posted all this bs about her son, and then made a point to get back on the board in the midst of her son’s “death” to post about that too??? Give me a break!! this was obviously fabricated by someone trying to make a point about how “poisonous” Christianity is with a quaint little “case-scenario”. C’mon, don’t get suckered in just because you can’t wait to find a justification to hate God and Jesus, etc etc..
Come on, people. Read what she wrote again. It’s very very obvious that it’s a setup. The person most likely isn’t a woman, doesn’t have a son, and sure doesn’t have one that killed himself as described. A simple critical reading of “her” story shows a few obvious biases and mistatements about Christian beliefs. For example:
“but that his salvation was in danger if he did not resist his unnatural tempations. I told him how being gay would mean he would live a shorter life”
This is very obviously an attempt by an anti-Christian person or organization to stir up exactly the feelings being expressed here.
Every single one of you are sheep
You’d follow a fucking cow to a slaughterhouse if you thought it was justified. Never in my life have I seen so many ignorant lemmings soak up so much fabricated propaganda.
When are you going to stop being spoon-fed this bullshit and start THINKING FOR YOURSELVES? Some website, with no respectable author, tells you what to think and you believe every word of it.
Dear God. I hope this generation does not … PLEASE … does not have to run the country some day. DEAR GOD PLEASE
/scared-shitless
Ok, so being an openly gay male whom once had to go through this type of situation, i understand completely. Its hard to define the period of time that you spend in the closet. I knew for years that i was different, and as i grew up it became harder and harder to hide it. When you are hiding such a secret you learn to analyze people within the first few minutes of meeting them. It can be alot, and the stress really takes its toll. I remember when I knew I had to come out. It was my 2nd suicide attempt and i knew then that it had to stop. Im lucky because my parents are quite liberal, and although dissapointed and uncomfortable, they still supported me. To this day I know that I have fought my battles and won, and now i realize that I was perfectly fine until society, or these fundamentalists in society, taught me to be ashamed of who I really was. I really feel bad this kid didnt have anyone to talk to about it, maybe in time his mother would have understood. Its just sad, even if this story isnt sad, something needs to change.
omg, so sad
@bobert, the woman merely repeated what Family Research Council and nearly every antigay religious ministry says…in their own words.
NovaNET:
“and now i realize that I was perfectly fine until society, or these fundamentalists in society, taught me to be ashamed of who I really was”
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You SHOULD be ashamed of who you really are.
By the way, I like how you lump everyone who feels this way as fundamentalists lololo — Very liberal way of thinking eh!? Hah I love it, daily dose of comedic relief
Now go and be ashamed. You’re truly a freak.
You guys talk about “non-understanding”, and about how the mother needs to have been “accepting” but look at you guys: you’re being the same type of bigot - not accepting the view that belongs to someone else.
And no, the mother didn’t murder the son, she didn’t kill him. Saying she did is like saying that the cola machine makers are responsible for all the dimwits who get crushed by them every year.
Maybe YOU would have handled the situation differently but to preach acceptance and understanding just makes you look like a bigot.
My sympathy to all parties involved.
Is this for real? It reads exactly like something you’d find on landoverbaptist or something, especially the:
“I talked it over with his therapist, who had the ludicrous idea that homosexuality was unchangable and that trying to repress could lead to lots of psychological damage (I’ve dropped him and will try to be finding another therapist with more moral beliefs). I wouldnt be surprised if he’s the one who’s feeding my son all the homosexual propaganda about how its ‘ok’ to be gay. ”
Also, she’s using smileys in that thread. Lines like: “But wasnt it my fault for not accepting him? :-(”. Who does that?
Yeah I think the mother was right; maybe a little bit pushy. She should have let him know that she loves him and will never reject him; the same way that Jesus never rejects any of us. Then in hindsight she should have left it a few days and then let him know her views. Which are not just her views but God’s views as well.
Do you know the number of kids that grow up thinking that they are gay. It’s a large percentage in my country. Sure a lot of girls lick carpet for some sort of twisted social recognition and I think at that young age with hormones racing it’s hard to tell what is going on. Let alone if you are gay or not.
If you’re referring to Betty, then you’re right, I can’t verify if her story is true; the posts predate my blog by two years. But even if it turns out not to be true, the point of my post still stands.
Go play in traffic.
If there were no Christianity, there would just be some other religion to feed her ideas that she lacks in her own mind.
I’ll bet this is a complete fake, written by someone who wants to publicize the idea that something like this *could* happen. Just the way the “mother’s” account is written, it feels like a set up and doesn’t feel like what someone genuinely in her situation would have said.
Of course I could be wrong, but I hope not for that kid’s sake, if he exists.
Religion is for the weak that just want to justify their existence. Religion kills just as many as it saves, as almost every war in history was fought over beliefs, or territory that was considered religious. Religion is the greatest form of hypocrisy there is. It is a creed that is devoid of logic, reason, and moreover, science.
Ethics can exist without some divine being to live our lives by. I used to be a Christian until I realized that it really was Evil. The purest form of Evil is that which impersonates Good. Christians do not care about Christ; they just distort the teachings of Christ and the Bible, which by the way are thousands of years old and have been translated through so many languages that they probably have little semblance to the original stories.
This woman is a prime example of the saving grace of religion: it allows you to be ignorant and for it to still be okay. Homosexuality is a genetic defect that has existed since the beginning of time. The chemicals in your brain control how you feel, and any slight irregularity can cause depression, mania, fear, and attraction–sometimes to the same sex. It is only now that gays are “coming out” because fascist Christians have kept them in fear for so long and they are now fighting back. Religious fanatics think homosexuality is a perversion when it is IN FACT a genetic variation. You can’t tell a gay to stop being gay any more than you can tell a black person to stop being black, and there is nothing wrong with either of those.
You want to talk perversion? How about fixing the problems with sodomy between priests and children in the church before attempting to “fix” Christianity. Or how about perverting the teachings of Jesus? I’m sure he didn’t hate gays. It’s possible even some of his apostles were gay. Heck, it’s possible even Jesus himself was gay. What would you think of that then, hmm?
So if you want to be a fascist and hate gays, fine, but keep your ignorant mouth shut about it. And all that talk of sinning is hypocrisy because hating gays for being “perverted” is just WRATH in its purest form.
Regardless if this story is true, this kind of thing happens all the time. That woman killed her child with ignorance, and she will have to accept the consequences. Jesus taught us to love, not hate. Accept people for who they are and stop trying to change them.
There is no doubt in my mind that this story was fabricated. But, for the sake of discussion, a lot of sense has been made here. The boy WAS responsible for his own actions. The mother COULD have been more patient. Fundamentalism DOES have its pitfalls. Jesus WAS a historical person. And, it IS a scary thought for this generation to be running a country.
Now, from my point-of-view, the Bible says homosexuality is a sin. If you believe the Bible, then you ought to believe that, too. If you don’t believe the Bible, then your beliefs about homosexuality are gathered from another source (i.e. yourself, your parents, TV…).
My story: I’ve tried the suicide thing a couple of times in the past. One time because my grades were getting really rough in high school. Another time because I had an addiction that wouldn’t let go. The only thing they have in common is my inability (lack of desire) to keep going, hold on, move passed it all. I made the decision both times.
Epilogue: You folks toward the top of the comment list; you’re not the first people to hate Christianity. You’re not even the first to hate hypocrits within Christian churches. In fact, Jesus beat you to it (read about how Jesus responded to the hypocrits of his day).
we open-minded people have dealt with intolerance for far too long a time.
we’ve sat by and let others cling to thier unreasonable and unfounded beliefs because they have should have the right to do so. but it’s killed too many in not only instances such as this, but wars as well. religion is nothing more than a means to use guilt and fear to control others, that is all it has ever been.
I DECLARE WAR ON ALL RELIGION. keep it to yourself. you can’t prove any of it has legitimacy, so let it fester in your imagination so the rest of us don’t have to deal with it.
do your part to let everyone around you who thinks its ok to hate gays or anyone else, know that they are not only backward thinking scum, but if there is a hell they will probably end up there for being such peices of shit.
keep this in mind, christians- there is no way all those millions of gay people are faking it. if there is a god he definately made them gay, and who the fuck are you to question him?
p.s. while we’re talking about god’s intentions, he didn’t scatter marijuana and psyilocyben all over the planet so we could make them illegal. think about it.
“It caused his death — if there was no Christianity, he would still be alive”
You know, my mom was a great student of history. I used to ask her when I was a little girl, watching old war films on tv while she was doing the ironing, “Why didn’t somebody try to kill Hitler before 1939?”
She said, “The sad thing is about history, is even if he had been removed, there’s always somebody right behind to that place.”
Islam anyone? I love all the mary’s that tell me they’re Buddhist–ever read what the Dalai Lama had to say about gay people? Sects of Judiasm…Yeah, and Hindus love it when you even broach the subject…
All religions (aka barely coherent rabid belief systems) are Hitler. Some speak a little gentler, but same raw deal. Sleep with dogs, wake up with fleas, Betty. Have a nice life.
I agree with you, but that’s a bit beyond the scope of what I was trying to say. I’m referring to a specific problem in modern America, and that problem is caused by fundamentalist Christianity.
It initially struck me as possibly fake as well, but I didn’t really have any means to check it. Her story has been referenced on several other sites, one I mentioned (fstds), so I decided to give it the benefit of the doubt. One thing is for sure, though: this sort of scenario is occurring all across America.
I just browsed through the topic she made. So tragic.
THE FIRST ANSWER she received in her first topic would have made perfect sense… Leave the kid grow until he’s mature enough, and give him just what he needs for now - mother’s LOVE.
I pity how the forum administrator butchered the whole situation by giving statistics and biblical references instead…
I’m a Christian, a fundamentalist one, and I’m sad too.
If I may point out that it was the kid who killed himself, not the mother. I am not saying that what she said didn’t agitate the situation, but in the end it was the kid who couldn’t handle it. There are alot of people who go through far worse things and don’t kill themselves. I met a man who’s father locked him in the attic and would turn out the lights and prowl around until he found him then beat him until he was unconcious. This went on for years - from childhood to adolescence. Today the man is a Christian and a motivational speaker, and his relationship with Jesus Christ transformed his entire life. Of course, he could have just killed himself too. He went through alot more than that kid did. It’s still tragic, but don’t blame it on the mother, I am sure she feels bad enough already. Give your head a shake people; there’s still such thing as right and wrong in this world. We are responsible for our actions; you can’t say that someone “made” you do something. They may influence you, but ultimately you make the decision whether you will end it all or continue on in life.
As for Christianity and Jesus Christ, neither are going away. Various “educated” people have tried for centuries to wipe Jesus and His Message off the face of the earth and they have faded into obscurity but the Gospel still brings joy, life and peace to untold millions. Hmmm….maybe there’s something to it huh? I find it interesting that many people on the Internet are so quick to point out all the “evil” that relegion is spreading, yet they fail to talk about cases like my cousin who’s life is being turned around from a life of drugs, despair, and suicidal depression to a life of peace, purpose and fulfillment, or the communities we reach out to every weak and help broken and hurting people mend their families and stay off drugs, or what about my other cousin who came from a totally broken family with all the odds against her, yet now today has a happy and normal life because of her relationship with Jesus Christ. You are focusing on the bad; but there is hope all around…maybe it’s time our generation started fixing things instead of just complaining…anyways, I got some work to do tomorrow; a dream to follow, a friend to help, and even a girlfriend who I am saving myself for until we get married.
I don’t regret it for a moment.
Poor boy…I feel sorry for him…I wish I could have talked with him. May his family find resolution and peace.
I think that since this is a very emotional incident, because of that I think it really did clouded some of the readers’ judgement in regard to the problem. It’s understandable to be angry, but it’s also for the greater good that we can come to an understanding from this tragic incident, and for that I’ll attempt to discuss the root issue.
The truth is, none of us have much insights toward Betty’s son, and what he had encounter in his life that drove him to commit suicide. For something as serious as this, it usually involves a combination tragic experiences. Don’t get me wrong, by no means am I defending his mother’s action which is very apparent to others and herself (as much as the others trying to shift the blame off her, and the value of Christianity in order to cover their blind-faith’s rear) contributed to his death. But at the end of it, it comes to a matter of choice, even for fundamentalist Christians. As we all know, it’s almost not within human nature and ability to follow Christian values in its exact. Within a civilized society, they best they could do is choose acceptable values and enforce them to the best of their ability. Ironically, it is this “choice” that modern Christians teaching fail to include. (Even though it’s made very clear in the bible)
It was Betty’s choice to accept her beliefs. It was also her choice to applied it to others forcefully. It was her choice to not simply accept her son for who he is, and pray for his sin (as she sees homosexuality is a sin), or seek other alternatives that will relieve the guilt toward her faith. Yes, her religious believes played a role on influencing her thoughts, but it was her, ultimately who choose to reject her own son.
In terms of speaking in life, you get some you lose some. Betty lost her child, but on the other hand she gains the acceptance, and respect by outsiders that shares her faith for standing up for their beliefs. Was it worth it? Let’s look around the world.
I’d like to add several things to this discussion, if one can call it that. Firstly, at this point it seems almost immaterial as to whether the original story is true or not. Certainly, if it is true than it is indeed tragic, but even if the original story is not true, the true tragedy of the divisions caused by cases like these is readily apparent even in this thread.
Secondly, I’d like to address comments both by some admitted Christians who felt hurt (and not without merit) at the hate they felt directed at them, and at some comments by those such as Sane which were directed at them. I think the key here, and one which is blurred, misstated, and often forgotten, is what I would call the difference between belief and religion. Though I myself don’t believe in the existence of God, I would not question the rights of others to have this belief.
Clearly, however, the question here is not a belief in God, but a belief in the utter truth and sanctity of the Bible. This is where many modern Christians start to fall into the “hypocrisy” trap, taking some tenets of Christianity as gospel truth and ignoring others. In this case, I would actually agree with some of Sane’s statements, although likely for different reasons. Clearly, if you believe that the bible is God’s word on earth, then taking a position like that of the mother is not wrong, indeed it is necessary. You love your child and as such clearly would not want to see them live what you believe is a life of sin. Clearly, here, for those who do not believe that this is indeed the case (myself included) the enemy is not the mother but the institution itself. I would, however, question Sane as to whether he keeps Kosher, for is not the old testament also the word of God?
This brings me to my final point, which is the necessity of conversation in today’s society. And by conversation, I mean a reasonable dialog of discussion, rather than a he said, she said, you’re an idiot catalog of mistakes that have gone on since the beginning of time. The problem with hate, fear, and anger are that these emotions tend to override discussions that could possibly lead to solutions of the underlying problems. Aside from a very few, the majority of the people on this board would consider the suicide of a boy a travesty. Gay, straight, Christian, Atheist, liberal, or conservative, nobody wants to see events like this happen. Similarly, the majority of people in this world don’t want to see more wars or more abortions (even if you believe that a woman has a right to have an abortion, it isn’t something that you would want to see happen). This is why we should turn forums like this into places for creative thought rather than arenas in which to have ego wars. For mentioning PFLAG I applaud the efforts of Readsalot and similar posters.
There are compromises we can make and there are things which we can agree upon. Rather than losing hope and feeling sick we should think of how to reach people like this kid and his mother before things like this happen. Calling them ignorant fundamentalists is not the way to go about doing this. Rather inviting them to find common ground is.
No Betty your son wont burn in hell. YOU WILL. This is all your fault. I have no sympathy for you. Your a terrible mother for putting religion, which is all a bunch of bullshit some people wrote in a book a couple a thousands of years ago, before your own son! No one knows anything about religion or the existence of god. What YOU did know for a fact is that your son was in pain and had nowhere to go and you drove him to suicide with your bible bullshit. You dont deserve children.
anyway I gotta go. I have a to get my daily dose of media brainwashing to keep myself a homosexual.
The greatest illusion the devil cast on man was convincing man that the devil was really GOD.
look, the main line here is that the bible can be interpreted in so many ways. some people interpret it so deeply that a basic concept is lost. isn’t the basic concept love one another? how great would that be. simple as that. no war, no hate, no violence.
she could have been nicer. accepted him for what he was and didn’t try to change him RIGHT THEN AND THERE. He’s coming out to you and you SAY you accept him and then you say that his salvation is at risk? WTF? She probably doesn’t know what he’s gone through with his “friends”, peers at school and the last thing he needs is a mother’s hateful judgment. Probably just wanted a hug.
she could have talked about the salvation next week you know.
Religion is for those who come to terms with life by not trying to prove to themselves who created them. They simply accept age old wisdom in exchange for trying to know the truth first hand. Faith is all that matters.
Atheists come to terms with reality by accepting their life at a logical face value, never desiring to entertain the possibility of what seems illogical. Proof is all that matters.
Faith doesn’t need proof and proof has no place for faith. Human emotions respond to thoughts and concepts.
This child obviously could not face the dilemma he found himself in. The mother was trying to explain to him that no one will love him enough to change his Depends when he gets old, nor have a loving memory of him when he is gone. That his emotions would lead him to that end.
Don’t speak of an loving “adopted” family being exactly the same as a loving biological family. It isn’t. Neither are bad, only one is more desirable. She wanted for him to have the chance for that experience. Clearly the proof of his feelings flew in the face of that age old parental wisdom.
Sad story about how religion is no longer being able to adequately communicate ancient and true wisdom to a world that can only barely understand that there is so much more to reality than we can ever fathom.
What a load of horseshit. This has got to be another Urban legend in the making. Do you not realize how often something like this will be written for no other reason than to rile people up? The story that mom supposedly wrote sounds like pure nonsense whyped up for this very reason. Of course it would have appeared in some gay commuity or website for no other reson than to incite some extra hatred toward the religious right. Your posting this horeseshit is irresponsible. I’ll just bet you feel sick. Sick that nobody is paying attention to you or your blog. So you go over to Digg and post your own UR
Ll just to get people to read this shit. The ether is not as dumb as you look.
Daddio is a classic example of religious fanatic. Aim harder and look for the the real issue before you laid your accusations (which you equally have no proof as in it happens for real or not). These are real people talking about real issues in our society. The Betty incident is a product of those problems.
Hmmm…usually people who hate Christianity so much have a lot of skeletons in the closet. Their worst fear is to have their sick minds and sins exposed to God, so they think it is best to get rid of God at all. Sorry, it doesn’t work this way, you can pretend the sun is not out there by shutting the window.
Gay people are privileged today, but they don’t want more rights, they want everybody to say that they are great, that sticking a penis in the anus is natural. Inside, they know it is such a BS, byt they need to feel better, to calm dwn their own internal shame. Yes, because it is impossible to do something so weird and feel good about yourself. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SOCIETY OR RELIGION, unnatural behavior makes you feel bad because you know deep inside it is wrong.
It’s ok to have your belife, but keep it yours and don’t force it on others. People like Betty can be related to finatical belivers of other religions which bomb people because they think it is going to get them to their god quicker. I’m sad that this boy was pushed so far to kill himself that takes a lot to get to the point where you are going to kill yourself. Truly so many people could have helped him.
There is nothing wrong with being gay and I wish people would get over it, people do not do it just to be cool. Some people are just gay, much like others are straight. It’s already hard enough being gay, knowing that you will not have kids (not naturally at least) is a good example of that. Everyone here knows that but it needs to be reinforced in the extreme parts of the community.
I have a feeling that this story is either made up or is not be represented correctly.
Regardless, when someone commits suicide, they are solely responsible for their actions. It is not the mother’s fault any more than it is yours or mine. Modern “victim” mentality, blaming others for our mistakes, should be eschewed in favor of taking responsibility for our actions.
The mother does not deserve to die any more than you do or I do, regardless of what she’s done. Blaming the mother is a cop-out.
I completely understand your hate for Christian FUNDAMENTALISTS, but Christianity all together I do not. I’m a Christian my self, and I share your hate for Betty, and the Fundamentalist community. By I accept homosexuality, I believe evolvution is the fact that we are here, and that God was responsiblefor allowing the narrow odds to bring us where we are today. No before I get side-tracked, I view this as something that God would truly frown upon.
Everything else I want to say has been said.
i think the kid was weak, F what his mother things, he said it himself that he knew she would’nt understand… why so shocked? why take away your life? foolish as his mother.
It’s been funny reading all the ‘Christianity is to blame’, ‘Christianity hates homosexuals’, ‘Christianity isn’t true’, and ‘I don’t believe the Bible but still like to call myself Christian’ remarks here. You guys really should get out more, and stop coming out with such uninformed hate. Has even one of you done an alpha course or similar to find out what the Bible really says?
According to the story at the top, the mother stated that (a) she still loved her son, and (b) God still loved her son. As for expecting the mother to act against her conscience, and against her beliefs, why should she? Expecting her to is completely hypocritical, as you weren’t expecting the son to act as a heterosexual, and (judging by most of the comments) nor are you open to considering changing your own beliefs; why should the mother then be forced to act against her beliefs? Moreover, she acted in a loving, non-violent manner (contrary to much of the anti-Christian hate posted above).
Saying that you hate Christianity is precisely the same kind of rash, reactionary, blanket statement that those Christians you hate use against gays, sinners, etc.
How hypocritical and judgmental of you - two traits you identify and despise in funamentalists.
I’m a Christian and I am saddened deeply by this situation. But I’m amused by the blind mob mentality of “this is why I hate Christianity.” Talk about “coming out of a cave of fear” (sifumoking). Pathetic.
The woman is a troll. Her posts are meant to tweak the other Christians on that thread. They fell for it and so have most of you guys.
“if there was no Christianity, he would still be alive”
A lot, a lot, a lot, a lot of people would be alive if Christianity, specifically very religious Christianity would not be here.
Like you, fundamentalist really annoy me and sometimes even anger.
Legit or not, there are people out there that think like that. Think for yourselves people, don’t use a book as a guide for your life. Be fair, be kind and be understanding. Is it that difficult?
I guess the irony is that she probably thinks that God is punishing her for raising a gay child.
@Sane,
Religion and morality couldn’t be more opposite. Morality in society doesn’t advance because of religion, morality advances in spite of religion.
“I fear there is little hope for kids raised by these people.”
So has every generation before you and humanity still persists.
To accuse others of picking and choosing when you clearly pick and choose as well is pure hypocrisy. Every fundamentalist is religious by convenience, not by conviction. You don’t kill others in the name of your religion, you don’t punish adulterers with death. Therefor you are a hypocrite. Stopping the hypocrisy comes in realizing that the bible has relevance until it is proven otherwise, such is the case with capital punishment for sexual deviancy. So unless you’re saying that homosexuality is one of God’s mistakes, then you are dead wrong, and an instrument for intolerance and hatred. While society is trying to advance moral relativism, fundamentalism continues to try and suppress it in favour of it’s own cruel and intolerant absolutism.
To scope my comments, I do believe in God. I believe that God is Eternal but the bible is timely, and in some cases, a dead letter. But I do believe that parts of the bible have relevance. Parts that say things like, we (humans) are the stewards of the earth. As such, as our understanding of the creation around us grows, so does our interpretation of the past, and so should our interpretation of the future. Faith is a living and breathing trait of humanity. It’s growth cannot be suppressed, and cannot remain rooted in unchangeable timely influence and assumption. Rather it must learn and grow and mature. I believe in evolution as part of God’s eternal plan. As the mechanism of his creation. This has nothing to do with the reasoning for his creation.
Interestingly enough, I also believe that religious fundamentalists of all faiths are instruments of evil. That they are one of the aforementioned ‘wolves in sheep’s clothing’. Satan is taken for granted in this world, and he is VERY very good at his job. But peace and tolerance will always overcome hatred and fear.
Think about it, fundamentalism causes people to hate gays. That is an instant red flag that something is wrong when a religion fuels hatred.
Let me make sure I understand you correctly.
You’re blaming this kid’s death on his mother and Christianity? If his mother had pulled out an AK-47 and blown his head off in the public square, would you hate her then to?
That’s what happens to you in places where REAL fundamentalism is practiced. Don’t like the guy your family is arranging for you to marry? That earns you a pot of boiling oil or a hefty splash of battary acid to the face. And who can forget female circumcision? You just have to be female to earn that in places it’s practiced. Do you hate them and their religious faith to?
The kid killed *HIMSELF*. It’s an unfortunate fact that kids kill themselves every day in every country around the world. His mother tried to help him in the only way she knew how but it didn’t work. Does it suprise you that a child would reject a parent’s attempt to help them? We all did that when we were young. It’s a shame that he chose that way out but he’s in the minority; most people don’t commit suicide in response to problems within the family.
For those of you that still cling to the belief that Christianity has caused more deaths than everything under the sun, think again. The combined efforts of Jews, Christians, and Muslims can’t hold a candle to the carnage caused by Atheism. The Nazi’s made certain that churches and organized religion were stamped out in preference to worshiping Hitler as the only authority. The Goddless utopia envisioned by the communists in the Soviet Union made Hitler’s efforts look childish; Hitler killed around 8 million. The Soviets killed 40 million in their purges and gulags. Nobody will ever know how many millions died in Cambodia, another product of Atheism. The death toll for all of the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, and the witch hunts for the US and Europe COMBINED look like loose change in the ash try by comparison. Don’t take my word for it, do the research yourself like I did.
There are a few on this board who emphasize the notion, “if there was no Christianity, he would still be alive!” Good notion for people of the world who do not have accurate knowledge of the scriptures.
The day of no Christianity is rapidly approaching, the Bible clearly brings out that we are living in the last days of this system of things. When that day is upon us like “a thief in the night,” all false religion will be exposed and everyone affiliated with it will be cut off from the earth.
If a person is homosexual and does not seek treatment (yes there is help) then God says, “let them wallow in their filth,” because there are several factors that “WILL NOT” inherit God’s Kingdom, of which homosexuality and all who support it is a part of.
It will be the glorified Jesus Christ who will judge this young man who took his own life whether he is worthy of the resurrection. As for the rest of you living on this earth, because of the coming tribulation I would worry about my own fate rather than this young fellow. Remember “death is the wages of sin,” you people alive will be facing something much worse.
When will the world open it’s eyes up to the constant discrimination that goes on all over the place from getting a job to renting an apartment. We have things in applications that discrimination on the grounds of race,sex, creed, religion is against the law yet discriminating on a persons Sexual orientation is just OK? Even in this country(USA) that prides itself on how great a society we have and how everyone is let to live their life and to chase their dreams, they left out the clause of “unless your a Homosexual” and “If you are don’t tell anyone don’t display it in public and Hide it from the rest of us please”
The utter ridiculousness of this is maddening at least. People should be able to be who they are, Gay, Straight, BI, How does your orientation make you any less of a person.
Religion lets talk about that for a min
for better of worse lets say that at least 70% of the Worlds population believes in a higher power in one form or another. Then why is it if a person told you that he spoke to GOD you would then say he was crazy and needed to be committed?!(of course I don’t mean a mentally ill person who says GOD told him to kill everyone ect ect)
that right there tells you how Religion is a bunch of BS, all the commandments and such can be summed up in one word for why religion was developed
ORDER
to maintain a system where people live by and abide by a set of rules
thats all it is nothing more and nothing less.
More people have been killed over Religion than anything else in this world
religion in my opinion makes people feel that what they are doing is GOD’S will and therefore it is OK. It’s OK to tell your son that he should fight these urges and that he has a problem thus shunning him instead of accepting him for who he is. No one ever said he had to agree with it but to do what she did makes me sick. Saying things like unnatural temptations, leading to a shorter life? who told you that? or be celibate most ex-gays are - where is this woman getting her information from???
in closing religion is full of it, this mother needs help, and her son is gone because of what we as a society expect him to be and don’t accept him for who he is
@Rahyl
I hate to point out the fact that your blaming those death’s on atheism, when in fact those were politically motivated murders. It wasn’t atheism killing people, it was the communists and the nazis, nice try though. Oh and your an atheist as well, everyone is an atheist, it just depends on how far you take it. I’m an atheist to all religions, you’re an atheist to all religions except for your own. I’m sure you laugh at people who still worship Apollo much the same way I laugh at you for worshiping “god”.
Ding dong, soon Christianity will be gone!
I’m gonna dance on its grave. Stupid hypocritical bullshit.
This is typical behavior from someone who is faithful. She was terrified of her boy going to hell for being GAY! This is nothing new and has happened countless times before this kid. I’m sorry it happened to him but hey, mom and her fear of hell basically guaranteed the kid a spot in hell for killing himself. Assuming of course there is a hell, which I don’t believe there is.
If there is heaven and hell, my sexual orientation isn’t going to be what determines whether or not I go there. If there is an almighty god, it knows whether you are a genuinely good person or not. It knows if you are remorseful and try to makeup for the mistakes and pain you cause others.
But, trying to tell a Christian that there is no heaven or hell and that gay is good, would be the same as trying to convince me that black people are evil niggers who need to be killed. It’s not going to happen no matter how hard you try.
wow, you people are such damn hypocrites, its unbelievable. and you take no responsability for your actions. the kid killed himself (according to the story) NOT the mother. she just said that what he was doing is wrong. SO WHAT?? stuff my atheist, anti-christian dad has told me is way worst and waay more intolerant and hurtful, and i have yet to kill myself. (ohh i can already smell you haters saying “well maybe you should”). i have already forgiven him, and i still love him.
hate christians? hate christianity? hate the mom for believing differently? wow, you really should introspectively analyze yourselves, it is YOU who is hating and being intolerant.. read this sentence:
i hate christians and how they constantly push their ideals on us and are so intolerant of everyone who thinks differently.
now, replace the word “christians” with “gays”.. now imagine instead of you saying it, its me.. wow, im so intolerant.. oh no wait, that was YOU who said it, about ME..
hypocrites.
“The day of no Christianity is rapidly approaching, the Bible clearly brings out that we are living in the last days of this system of things.”
No it is not, and no it doesn’t. Your opinion that the ‘end is nigh’ is the same opinion of the early Christians, and every generation of Christians since the year of our lord 1.
Your hope is fueled by your assumption and fundamentalism.
Take a good look at this thread. Just do a word search on this page for the word “hate”. Look at everyone who has so much hatred for someone they do not know, not just Betty, but Jesus. For what…for guiding her son in the way that she saw fit. She simply told him that she and God loved him, but the lifestyle he was leading was wrong. There is NOTHING wrong with that. It is called PARENTING. You people who are pointing fingers at Christianity as the root of the problem have some unresolved issues apparently. Sooner or later people have to take responsibility for their own actions. There ARE consequences in this life, whether you want to believe that or not, it IS true…it is not up for debate like religion is. Why would you feel so much hatred for what someone believes. Last time I checked, this was a matter of choice pertaining to the individuals personal preference. You are doing the same thing as psycho’s out there who hate homosexuals. It’s identical. You’re trading one way of bigotry and hypocrisy for another. Here’s the way it goes:
Psycho Christians hate gays and U.S. soldiers and abortionists
In return:
Gays hate Christians, and/or choose what they want to believe out of the Bible, in essence forming their own religion inside of Christianity by claiming God approves. This makes them feel better about their decision to disobey God and makes it “justified” if you will. This causes grief from REAL Christians. By “REAL”, I mean Christians who believe the Bible. Who live the life God told them to lead. By grief, I mean, them TELLING THEM IT IS WRONG. If the boy was raised believing he was a Christian himself, then it was the mother’s duty, not only as a mother, but as a fellow Christian to tell him what he was doing was wrong. So, blaming her for his death is not only retarded and idiotic, even casting religion out of the equation, it is simply preposterous by any means.
Atheists and Liberals see what goes on with the Gays, even if they themselves are not gay, but jump on the bandwagon of Christian bashing because of past experiences with Christians who they hate, or simply because it’s something they fail to understand.
People, there have to be rules and morals. There ARE consequences in this life. You can’t feel sorry for yourself when these consequences are reaped for your actions. YOU made the choice, just like the son made the choice to end his life. You people said that he could’ve moved on, and lived a beautiful life. Yes, he could have. He could have accepted his mother’s guidance, or at least been receptive to her opinion (which by his actions, shows you that he was immature and irresponsible - any mature adult, or even adolescent growing up, should at least be able to tolerate an intelligent discussion about your life choices without throwing a temper tantrum and then debating suicide because someone simply disagrees) before jumping to commit suicide.
My stance:
I am a Christian. I was raised in church and went to a Christian school. I do not believe certain things that my church and school taught me growing up. Why? Because there are certain things that they taught that I felt was taken out of context in the Bible. I believe what the Bible says, not what anyone would tell me to believe over the years. This is what I urge EVERYONE to do. Research it for yourself. Don’t believe that because some guy a long time ago found a bone or some crap that we used to be monkeys. Do your own research and devise your own conclusion of what you believe. Blind hatred will not solve anything, it will only make you a bigot and a fool.
I will not ever meet a homosexual, an atheist, or agnostic and tell them that I hate them. I will never meet anyone for that matter, and tell them that I hate them. Why? Because the opposite of hate is love. Just as the mother in this story told her son that she still loved him, in spite of the lifestyle he was choosing to lead, bypassing her guidance and advice, she STILL loved him. Christ loves each and every one of you. It doesn’t matter if you are agnostic, atheist, or undecided. He didn’t die a painful and agonizing death for nothing. It was a demonstration of the ultimate sacrifice to show you how much he loves you. I pray that people will one day see the light, instead of attempting to change reality and history. It’s a futile effort my friends. History is already said and done, reality is set in place, and the future is up to you
I think that to say “if there were no Christianity he would still be alive” is a pretty asinine thing to say, not to mention the seriously unintelligible structure of that statement. saying that is on par with saying something like, if the sun didn’t exist we wouldn’t have global warming. it’s true, but it makes no sense to say something like that. additionally are you going to say that major influential people who align themselves with Christianity, and bring great help to people in poverty, people who are oppressed, people who other people don’t love would have been better off never doing anything? Jesus himself hung out with the prostitutes, the tax collectors, the sinners, the sick and anyone else who was in need of love. christianity is a faith of love, and i agree with you that the mother was not close to a proper representation of what a christian should be, but don’t bash the philosophy of love because if more people expressed love to people around them the less of these kinds of things would happen.
This looks like someone made it up..the one line sentence she reposted after he supposedly killed himself seemed a bit fake to me …probably just a troll..
Though it’s been reiterated here, the issue is not Christianity itself, it is fundamentalism. The message of the Bible, one of universal love and acceptance, has been distorted by dogma and the will to power of corrupt men.
It is not The Bible’s fault this woman behaved in this way, it was her own lack of will and stubborn adherance to filtered interpretations of this. She represents Christianity no more than militant muslims, warrior Buddhist monks, or polygamist Mormons are representations of their religion. Fundamentalism is a cult, albeit a large one, and should be viewed as such.
@ Nico…
To be honest, the first sentence of your post is the only thing that did not appear to be incoherent babbling. I’m actually being honest…not trying to be an ass.
Morals and ethics were formed FROM the bible. How can they be opposite. Where do you think the basic laws of mankind came from? Do the 10 Commandments ring a bell? Don’t be a tard just because you don’t have the strength or discipline to research anything on your own and believe whatever is convenient or easy for you. If you have no sense of personal conviction, that is YOU. Don’t tell people what they believe is simply convenient and that is why. It would be retarded for you to say that what I chose to believe is “convenient”. Look around at all of the hatred directed at what I believe. That’s convenient? These people don’t know me, yet they hate me simply because I am a Christian. Yet, I am the bigot? Read my last post, and please re-read my other posts before trying to point the finger at me calling me a bigot or a hypocrit.
I did not accuse others of picking and choosing what to believe. The Bible states that homosexuals will not enter the kingdom of heaven. It states that it is a sin. That being said, anyone who claims to be a Christian and says that their lifestyle is ok, is choosing not to believe the parts in the Bible that points those things out. Do I have to spell everything out here? Geez.
My comment about the hope for kids raised by the people here was very simple. For a person who hates Christianity blindly, I am sure their children will be raised believing that as well. Just as a child growing up in a Christian home might be raised that alcohol is a sin, or tattooes are wrong, and piercings are wrong (on men) or wearing a hat in church is wrong…I was raised believing all of these thing, but they are things that either the bible never says, or are taken out of context.
She handled it correctly. Liberals corrupted her son telling him homosexuality is okay. It’s not. Just because all of you don’t believe or agree with God doesn’t make God wrong. He is the creator and he makes the rules. Live by them or suffer the consequences.
So many Christians, so few lions…
You seem to read and interpret bible as it suits you and your beliefs the best. Like it was written last year or century.
When most of the bible was written relationship between men & women were not based on love and affection but ownership and trade. Ie the women became property of the husband.
Husband had the right to have sex with his wife whenever he felt, it was accepted because the man was the head of the family and woman was property of the man. Having sex with a woman was the right the husband had. Ie. husband was superior to the wife.
“do not have sex with a man like you have with a woman” can suggest that “don’t use the power to a man” ie. don’t rape a man as you are able to rape your wife. (sorry I’m not native english speaker).
1. Mos. 19:5-8 for example
But feel free to point me a chapter in bible where love between men is condemned. And please in case you do, refer to whole verses and not some small parts of them. You can twist everything to say whatever you want if you just quote small part of it.
And the subject, I feel disgusted too by the behavior or “Betty”. Even if it’s not true story it could be and even the possibility is disgusting.
If you believe that Christianity is not rapidly approaching, that’s quite alright, millions, perhaps billions share the same sentiments. But if you had any knowledge of what the scriptures bring out as far as prophecies are concerned you