FSTDT is usually good for a few laughs. I went there expecting to waste some time reading other people’s ignorant comments… and I see this:
“Just recently my son Bobby came out to me. I had been worried for awhile. His teachers said most of his grades were slipping and he seemed depressed and withdrawn.
Bobby said he’d been hiding it for awhile because he was afraid I would reject him. I sat him down and told him that I loved him and that God loved him, but that his salvation was in danger if he did not resist his unnatural tempations. I told him how being gay would mean he would live a shorter life, and that if he couldnt change his orientation he could be celibate like most the ex-gays are. He started crying saying something along the lines of “I knew you wouldnt understand! You’re just like everyone else!” before running to his room and slamming the door.
What did I do wrong? I dont want to lose my son, but I fear I already have. I talked it over with his therapist, who had the ludicrous idea that homosexuality was unchangable and that trying to repress could lead to lots of psychological damage (I’ve dropped him and will try to be finding another therapist with more moral beliefs). I wouldnt be surprised if he’s the one who’s feeding my son all the homosexual propaganda about how its ‘ok’ to be gay. That, or how homosexuality has engulfed the media, making it seem ‘cool’ and ‘hip’ and how they were just another oppressed minority. You didnt have to worry about seeing two men making out on tv at my age! I dont want to sound like a fanatic, but Im worried what other effects will come out of this increasingly secular, immoral society obsessed with filth.
Am I too late? Or is it possible to save my son”
I checked the thread this was posted on, and the son later killed himself.
There are very few things that can bring me to hate someone. I understand that everyone has different world views, and that everything they say and do has a reason behind it. I know no one ever intentionally does something they know is wrong, and that there is motivation for even their most despicable actions. I’m against the death penalty, and I believe in giving people a second chance. I know Betty loved her son, and wanted to help him, in her own way.
I can say, after reading this, that I truly hate Betty, the mother of this child. It doesn’t matter to me how devoutly she believed what she was doing and saying was right; it doesn’t matter how much she loved him; it doesn’t matter how bad she feels now that he’s dead. She was a direct cause of his death, and she could have prevented it with a single apology. She deserved to die more than her son did.
But even more than that, I hate fundamentalist Christianity.
I know that’s a divisive thing to say, and I generally wouldn’t say it, but I think there’s no other word I can use here. It caused his death — if there was no Christianity, he would still be alive
I think I use the word hate more freely than you do, but this is pretty sickening. What’s worse, this is happening all over the country. Very emotional post, zero.
It looks like the mom really cared for her son, but was driven to say incredibly hurtful things because of the anti-gay nature of modern christianity. I agree on the last part. I normally wouldn’t say it either, but I fucking hate fundamentalism. If it weren’t for fundie xians spreading hateful rhetoric about homosexuality, the son would still be alive today.
wow, i feel sick too after reading that. poor kid.
Religion is poison.
I just fucking hate it all. I know there are some “moderate” groups, but it serves no purpose other than to suspend rational thought in otherwise (usually) normal people.
oh come on, the woman looks really torn up about her sons death, and she doesnt know why he did it… i think the overall christian antigay thing was the cause, and the mom was a victim too
i agree tho that its things like this that make me hate christianity
This is fucking sickening. Congrats, Betty, you drove your son to suicide!
Fuck, this makes my stomach hurt just reading it. I wish I had been there to help the kid or something; it makes me feel so powerless. How the hell are we ever going to stop this from happening when we have to go up against a huge institution like christianity?
“The Christian resolve to find the world ugly and bad has made the world ugly and bad.”
— Nietzsche
After reading that entire forum, I was appalled. Obviously, this woman realizes she made a huge mistake with her son but is unwilling to admit that. Instead, she goes on a “jesus” site to get support for her horrible decision which was: to be a non-understanding parent. She did not have to accept his lifestyle but she could have been far more loving to her child, such as: I don’t care for what your lifestyle will be however, I love you dearly as my son and you will always be important to me. But no! She had to torture him him with hellfire and damnation instead. The posts of support are truly frightening. It was so easy to dismiss her son ,as a human being in conflict, by using their “good book”. I don’t know of a single professional counselor, psychologist, etc. that’s foisting gay views on anyone as suggested by the other posters there but this is the kind of twisted mentality their religion has allowed them to put forth to others. Now she worries about her other son. I fear she’ll continue to spread the same ugly message she did with the first. Religions have no tolerance and understanding unless it is in lock step with what they determine to be valid and “moral”. Where is the morality in successfully destroying a life because of a mythical belief?
Fundamentalism kills. This woman is proof. How could she give more support to a religious belief than her own child?
God has such a great sense of humour… if there was a god of course.
I do see a kind of irony in the story, the kid is out of his misery and made his mothers life a living hell, what will her community say? I imagine something in the line of: “Betty raised a sinner. Not only was he gay, he also killed himself”.
May sound hard but the bitch deserves it. Funny thing is that she’s talking about how the media is making everyone gay. Didn’t her parents and church make her a fundie Christian? Being gay is not a choice else Bobby would have never mentioned it to his self righteous bitch mum.
Aye, I agree with ya there. That’s fucking disgusting, and don’t be ashamed to say you hate Christianity, you have many very good reasons to. One that you already mentioned. Ugh, I feel sick too.
Fuck christians. Feed them to the lions. For dessert they can eat jews & muslims as well. I’m tired of delusional idiots steering the course of humanity.
Fundamentalists are to be pitied. It’s not christianity in the truest sense of the word that distorts them, but the dogma that is propegated throughout society by its ‘leaders’. Most fundamentalist christians are weak-willed individuals who simply follow what they’re told by pastors who see their congregations as pipelines through which income flows. The hipocritical nature of the current incarnation of the religion is blatantly apparent to anyone who takes a step back and analyses it; If all sin is equal in the eyes of God, then they have no place insisting that a gay may go to hell while a liar or thief (Like many within our administration) can simply waltz into heaven after a quick apology.
Don’t blame the christ, blame fundamental christianity.
There is no christ. You may cherish the values he exemplifies, but there was no magic man who walked on water and rose from the dead. It is as true as Apollo drawing a chariot across the sky. Come out of your cave of fear and join real world. Heaven and hell are a carrot and stick act. It is as plain as the nose on my face. THE EMPEROR HAS NO CLOTHES! THE EMPEROR HAS NO CLOTHES! There is no god!
@16
There surely was a guy named Jesus walking around the middle easy about 2000 years ago. And by all accounts, he did constantly tell people to love one another. I think these facts are a bit irrefutable, wouldn’t you agree?
Whether we’re discussing the divinity of the man is another issue and one which I leave up to each and every fellow human to decide for himself. I may believe in it, but I’m not shoving it down peoples’ throats.
*Middle East
No, I do not agree, and neither do the facts. Read your history. You are misinformed. The very existence of Jesus is quite credibly, refutable.
Got a link? I’d love to check it out.
Start here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus
Then google Richard Dawkins. Keep digging, you’ll see the light.
Cool…not a lot of info, but I was pressed for time and have to leave. Either way, I’ve always felt that the important thing in the bible was the message and never let myself be distracted by obviously dogmatic teachings seeded throughout the text (or christian society). Whether there is a god or isn’t will have no effect upon how I live my life and my respect for other people. And it shouldn’t affect other people either, let alone a mother who was as close to losing her child as she was.
Have a great day everyone.
She may as well have put a gun to his head and pulled the trigger herself. I hope she realises what her and her ‘faith’ have done.
I have nothing wrong with other people’s beliefs but why does that mean they have to push them on every one around them??? And the thing that makes me sick is that she believes that being gay is what made him kill himself, not the fact that she, along with every one else he told, belittled him every day since. NICE. Feel kinda sick too…
speechless
well, aspires me to gain more wisdom.. this is only a clear example of ignorance; the smaller and more numerous ones go undetected but are equally morally indefensible in their own right
It’s sad what happened to that kid. This gives us however, a very clear line where to stand. It’s the equivalent to telling someone you deserve disabilities, you chose to be retarded, I’m so disappointed that you’re a girl. What i think would have prevented this:
The kid – Heavy scientific evidence says homosexuality results from conditions in the womb. Not his fault he was gay, although suicide wasn’t a good choice. The next kid – discuss what you’re mom would do if you we’re gay, wanted to be a tran, etc.
The Psychologist – Trying to convince someone they’re a religious fanatic is the same as telling someone you’re an alcholic. The phychologist seemed to take the wrong approach however, seeing how the mother was a fanatic.
The mother – I have no problem with religious fanaticism. I have a problem with religious fanaticism affecting other people. She needed to put in more research, deal with the issues, and not drop a psychologist before she found another. Her stubbornness was a link needed on the chain. Next time, don’t be so close minded, and learn about all issues from all sides, and realize the church route may seem to be the right route, but it’s not the one that increases life-span.
The community – The community is sub-par for allowing this depressed suicidal-gay teen to have to only resort to his mother. Some counseling with the mother, or the teen may have helped this. Even before the child was born this attitude was dangerous. Now that this has happened, its pretty obvious to get some gay acceptance.
The church – The church of course, is to blame for the belief. Religious texts are no reason to bullshit people about reality, science, and effective measures. The other two examples? Evolution not being proven (Note: I didn’t say Darwinism), and Abstinence vs Abstinence plus education (the former increases sex + STD’s). This is the starting link in the chain, without it no one would be hurting him. In this case, drop the subject, think it’s impossible for a church? Why aren’t churches breaking out in tears over everyone committing gluttony?
if there is no God, why is it bad that the boy killed himself? if he is just an animal with no future but fade to black, why are you all feeling sick? i have an idea of the answer (and yes I do believe that it is an AWFUL story and I wish I could have been there to help)
…surprised…@ religion….
read somewhere that being gay has to do w/ hormones that a person is born with (Mike said “The kid – Heavy scientific evidence says homosexuality results from conditions in the womb. Not his fault he was gay,”)…and who gave us these hormones…? Directly, parent….indirectly, God. And if God gave us hormones, why is “he” hating on people (or things) he created? Never understood why in the Christian religions (i’m not Christian so i don’t know about the different branches and stuff) are always contradictory.
Another one bites the dust
Another one bites the dust
And another one gone, and another one gone
Another one bites the dust
Hey, I’m gonna get you too
Another one bites the dust
ya know… this is weird. this is exactly what the whole world does… a whole bunch of rash generalizations…
i betcha there was as lot more at work in this story than is listed… people don’t just up and kill themselves without proper motivation… i have a hard time thinking that JUST her anti-gay sentiment caused him to do himself in… perhaps the lack of a father, or reassurance, or any of the good things i’ve been privileged to have sent him to a place where life sucked.
i know that modern Christianity has it’s issues… what significantly large group doesn’t? are we really going to go lump all the Mother Teresa’s in with the Jane Fundamentalist’s who preach hate and damnation instead of love and mercy?
those of you in the the whole “i hate christians” group are sick. you’re not going to do any good hating them…
hardball is correct, this means nothing if there is no God. the thing that is more saddening is that suicide is an unforgivable sin.
I’ve NEVER understood religious fundamentalists, let alone parents who seemingly are more in love with their faith than the world they live in, let alone their own flesh and blood. This woman made a horrible mistake and while I loathe to wish ill-will on others, I hope she lives with this for the rest of her life and at some point down the road fully realizes what happened and why. I honestly hope she doesn’t find solace in her faith in God. I may sound cruel, but as I said before, putting faith in something unseen and tainted before your own kid is just plain sick.
Look at the language you use. Look at the porn you watch. See how you steal? See how you lie? If you research the facts, you would see that the things you believe are wrong. The Bible is the best thing to fight off Christians because they don’t read it. History is a great way of fighting the non believers because they don’t know it. Just because you don’t have a belief does not mean it is wrong for me to have one. This is America’s problem in the Middle East. This is our problem from the left side. People are radical in everything, and most on this thread are hard believers against Christianity. Actually the perverse Christianity of the denominational world (which is spoken against in the Bible), but that’s beside the point. What we believe rules our lives, and it should, only if the reason is because it it does. Sorry for the essay.
yeah, this story is quite sickening
peoples beliefs are their own choice and i ahve no problem with that
but like many of you guys said, forcing them on each other is quite wrong
Pingback: Donny Burnside » Blog Archive » I too feel sick
There is a place where heaven and hell meet the earth, that place is the human mind. This poor woman helped make her sons life hell, because he could not show her his heaven. Religion bashing is pointless, if there were no religions someone would create one, and inevitably it would be used to make hell on earth as everyone has different ideas of heaven. Instead show religions as what they are supposed to be, ways of knowing, coping, and hoping when people threaten you with damnation.
You people make ME sick. You have no idea what kind of stuff was going on in that home. You have no idea if he didn’t have deeper psychological issues like depression that would have caused himself to kill himself anyway. You don’t even blame the kid for being selfish enough to take his own life simply because his mother — actually, his mother’s religion — wouldn’t accept him. You put all the responsibility on the mother even though all she did was stand her ground. She didn’t reject him, she just told him that it was wrong. He got revenge though – he hurt his own mother in the worst possible way.
It’s true that if she had said something different, this wouldn’t have happened. You may disagree with how she handled the situation. But don’t be so quick to dole out hate simply because of that. It certainly belies your insistence that there are “very few things that can bring me to hate someone.” Seems to me like you just hate everyone who doesn’t fall within your definition of common sense.
Oddly enough, I think most Christians would agree that this is a horrid situation all around, and that the boy’s suicide was tragic. I was raised Catholic, and still practice to this day. I wish the mother would have simply stated that she loved her son and told him that he was perfect just the way he was. As I said, I was raised in a religious house and was told that God created everyone, and how could you ever hate something made by God. That includes all races and sexualities. Perhaps I’m overly idealistic, but I feel the problem lies in fundamentalism. Any ideal taken to an extreme is harmful, religion is no exception. Anyone who is religious but does not believe in evolution scares the hell out of me, as does anyone who is an atheist but cannot tolerate the religious.
Many senseless wars are fought in the name of God, many others are fought in the name of nationalism. Neither of those ideals are bad… until they are taken to the level of fundamentalism.
Finally, to clear things up, the Catholic church has a negative view of homosexuality because any sex for recreation (not procreation) is a sin, and a straight couple can at least pretend. Sad that even most Christians don’t realize that. Of course, that being said, I’m considered a sinner in the eyes of my own chruch… if only more Fundies realized that and saw just how much we all had in common, perhaps we wouldn’t have to read posts like this. Of course, if Fundamentalists did realize this, they would no longer be fundies.
I call myself a Christian. At the same time, I am every bit as appalled by this as any of you. The root of the problem is not Christianity in and of itself. It is the misinterpretation of Christianity that causes such tragedies. For some reason, people tend to think that their beliefs bestow upon them some judgmental right. This “right” is what causes these fundamentalists to feel so “heart-broken” about these “sins.” The message that Jesus preached, which in response to sifumokung, we know actually happened every bit as much as we know anything in history happened (i.e., the comparison of written documents from substantially separated accounts and the consistencies between them), was that we as a people were to stop condemning each other and pointing out which behaviors are wrong and which are right, but to instead care for one another regardless of sin. In effect, regarding sin, Jesus said “I’ll take care of that part.” Somehow, that got twisted into, “You sin, you go to Hell. It’s my job to inform you of this.” Christianity is not a bad thing. The church of today and most of history seems to have missed the point. Jesus said we are all brothers. That’s why we should care for each other. We’re in this together. Christian, Muslim, Jew, Atheist, Gay, Straight, Conservative, Liberal, any other title you chose to give. It doesn’t matter. That’s what a Christian is. One who follows Christ. What did Christ do? Christ loved. I just wish more “Christians” understood that. That’s why you all hate Christianity. Not because it, in and of itself is bad, but because it’ message is so for distorted from the original that it is more recognizable amongst non-Christians than it is in the church. This is why the church of today has failed. This is why fundamentalism allows such wretched events to take place. This is why the church needs a change. This is why I’m sorry.
Am I missing something? What did she say that was so bad? She told him she loved him and God loved him, but what he was doing was wrong. Sounds like he over reacted to me. Christianity is not the reason he died. HE made the choice, nobody made him do it. Just because someone tells you the lifestyle you lead is not right, shouldn’t drive you to commit suicide, unless you yourself believe that it is wrong and the weight of conviction drives you to doing it because you feel you do not have the discipline or strength to change. Either way, it was his fault, not the mother. The mother did her job, and tried to guide her child in a loving and accepting way, WITHOUT being like everyone else in this world and telling him anything that he wants to do is ok with God.
if there were no gays, he would still be alive too.
See? It makes just as much sense as your original phrase. I can make a lot of phrases like that one:
If there were no mothers, he would still be alive
If there were no grades, he would still be alive
If there were no media, he would still be alive
If there were no FILL-HERE, he would still be alive
All you religion-bashers need to take a long look in the mirror. You are as guilty of bigotry as any Klan member ever was. It’s one thing to disagree with someone’s ideology, it’s quite another thing to hate them because of their differences, whether those differences are racial, sexual, or ideological.
More to the point — quick blaming others for someone’s actions. Responsibility is the essence of humanity. You cannot have freedom without responsibility. We ARE responsible BECAUSE we are free to choose. This man chose to end his life rather than to face adversity (whether real or perceived). It doesn’t matter what the psychological issues were — he obviously had difficulty with his identity. There may have been ideological conflicts, social conflicts. None of us can say we can understand this man’s situation fully… but whether you are a Jew in Nazi Germany, a black man in Southern America, a fat man in a skinny family, or a gay man in the Bible belt, you can choose to face the adversity, overcome it and make something beautiful and meaningful of your life, or you can throw in the towel, give up, succumb to self-pity, or even take your life. Whatever you choose to do, it is YOUR choice, and you are FULLY RESPONSIBLE for that choice.
So if you choose to be a bigot and a hater — please be honest enough to admit that you simply hate certain classes of people, and stop trying to pretend that such hatred is justifiable.
Joel, you are incorrect. Part of salvation through Christianity is REPENTANCE. Which means you admit you were wrong in the things you were doing and stop doing them. The problem with the church today is what is listed here in this section. Yes, Jesus did take care of our sin, but he did not say continue sinning and I’ll cover for you. He said, for all that you have done, I will take care of…now that you know the way, repent and turn from your old ways. People hate Christianity because of hypocrits mainly, but there are ALOT of. There is a serious problem with the church now, and that problem is that they are basically deleting the basic rules that the Bible laid out for us. You can’t do that. You can’t tell people that being a homosexual is ok and move on. There have to be morals. Basic rules you set for your own personal life. She told him he was wrong. Tough shit. So he kills himself? Sounds like he had some serious mental instabilities in my opinion. Being attracted to men was the least of his worries if this drove him to suicide.
Joel, thank you for your well written response. I am also a Christian, and like many others feel God meets us where we are at. We all sin, and I’m not here to say what is and isn’t sinning. But I believe God made us who we are, and wants us to be honest, whole people. A gay person living a staright life isn’t being honest with him/herself. I think we are getting closer to a lot of answers on why consistently (around 10%) of the population is gay. Poor Betty, and her poor son. I really feel for them both. It wasn’t her fault. She loved her son, and yet still has the right to question and struggle to respond (as any parent does) to a startling discovery. Denial is normal. Neither Betty nor her son had the support that they needed, or perhaps the time necessary to cope with such an issue. I’m not sure where they lived, so many cities, especially rural ones have such a limited gay support network, or churches open to ‘out’ members and gay couples. It would have been good for Betty to also have someone refer her to a supportive organization like PFLAG (Parents, Families, and Friends, of Lesbians and Gays). Our local chapter is held at a church in Houston. BTW, there are many people who are homophobic who aren’t fundamentalist and people in the chuurch still struggling with reconciling Biblical teachings and homosexuality. I don’t hate Betty. I think that reacting that way to people who are responding to what’s thrown at them just puts up barriers between poeple who obviously need to talk and process alittle more. How else are we going to move forward as a society?
I call bs on the entire thread. What woman, overwhelmed with grief, would post one sentence at a time? One debate-like sentence at a time?
“But wasnt it my fault for not accepting him?” Come on. I think poster is playing the role of the mother as a strawman for arguments. The “preachers” on the blog are not licensed counselors or internet savvy and are falling for it. And then you guys with an axe to grind show up. Poster sits back and looks at what he has created: a fullfledged dugg-out fark-greenlit brouhaha.
Pic of the death certificate on thesmokinggun.com or it isn’t real.
“If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own.” — Jesus, John 15:18-19
The Child Deserved What He Got.
The Same Will Come To All Gays And Lesbians.
They Might Not Kill Themselves But When
They Meet God Face To Face They Will Want
To When God Asks Them What They Have Done
With Their Lives And What Have They Learned And
What Have They Overcome.
Readsalot…I have a question for you.
How in the world can you call yourself a Christian, and tell people that being a homosexual is ok? That is mind boggling, and going back to what I have said once before…you can’t say “I’m a Christian, but I pick certain things in the Bible that I refuse to abide by.”. That’s a double negative.
These are all interesting oppinions of why and how this young man died. Saidly enough we are protray the mother as someone who hated her child, which is insanely ridiculous. She didn’t agree with his life style which is her GOD given right. Did she go about discussing this with her child no. But the bigger picture is how much hate is on this site along. You guys saying you HATE Christians is ridiculous and puts you at the same level as you say the mother is at, I guess you guys would kill your own child too??? Well I would hope not, infact think about what you are saying and then let me ask you this. Would you want your child reading this most insane post, absolutely not. Why because as people we are smart enough to realize that hate towards any group simply causes harm. Not only to the groups involved that we hate but to those who hate. As a Christian I’m not beating your doors down trying to tell you that your living in sin, but if you asked my opinion I just might…LOL. Those most intelligent remarks but a couple of people who said Christ didn’t exist just basically through out all of history which is rediculous in itself. We have not only hundereds of EYE-WITNESS accounts of Christ walking the earth but thousands. Not to include the personal journals and scribes that people wrote about Jesus as he traveled the land. So to say he’s not real or never existed makes you look like a retard who does not know how to read. I’m a history teacher and would be a fool to say history never happened when I in fact know that yesterday just past. Be realistic!!! And that Dawkins that someone spoke about is about as bright as a burnt out light bulb when it comes to talking about religion or history for that fact. He can beat around a BUSH better than George W. BUSH can. In the end it is a very sad story and one I hope we all can learn from: Christiand, athiest, muslim, budhist, liberal, or any other affiliation.
Through Chirst!
I think this is a good example of indirect murder.
This story is so amazingly horrible that it almost feels fake. Probably the best line in the whole quoted message is “I’ve dropped him and will try to be finding another therapist with more moral beliefs”. I feel so sorry for her son, so sorry for children that have to be tortured into believing this horse shit. If you read through the forum, people have realistic, humanly questions (“is masturbation wrong?”) and the answers are provided out of passages from a book written by someone thousands of years ago.
This is complete insanity.
Complete insanity to have morals to live by? To believe in something that really happened, instead of blindly refusing to believe for no apparent reason? Acting as if history never happened? Yes…I believe the latter is insanity. At it’s finest I’d like to add. The growing world has become uber retarded. I fear there is little hope for kids raised by these people. They will grow up thinking that everything in their life is ok, and history isn’t something that actually happened, you can live in your own reality and choose what really happened!!! It’s a permanent acid trip….it’s called life!
I loathe religion with a passion. End it all.
Why do you loathe religion? Because you have never seen Christ? Because people have fought wars because of it? Or because you simply can’t pick one?
This is for the people who stated that they are Christians but then later said God made us the way we are. God wrote the bible through man and do you honestly think God would contradict his own word and make people gay. As Christians we should live our life thorugh the Bible. If you think God made people gay and believe that this is true, then you are not following the Bible very well. Now I’m not trying to be some perfect Christian, because I have many problems and I am full of sin, but I admit my sin and accept it and God forgives me. But if you live in sin and refuse to repent for it. Then God does not forgive you. If you wake up in the morning and go to sleep at night without praying for the forgivness of God, Then you are not forgiven.
LEV 18:22 “‘Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is
detestable.
1CO 6:9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of
God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor
adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
ROM 1:26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their
women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.
27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and
were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with
other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
And this goes out to the people who were just bashing Christians left and right. I’m going to use a quote from a very great movie named “Contact”.
[Ellie challenges Palmer to prove the existence of God]
Palmer Joss: Did you love your father?
Ellie Arroway: What?
Palmer Joss: Your dad. Did you love him?
Ellie Arroway: Yes, very much.
Palmer Joss: Prove it.
Her father had dies when she was 7. She can physically prove that she loves him.
Through the media and other sources people get this twisted and horrible look at what Christans are like. You see those horrible Baptist from up north at the funeral homes protesting a soliders death, you see a religious fight between some people at a church or you see a history book and how it speaks about religious wars… But what you don’t see and most likely will never see is the Christans that went to New Orleans after Katrina and helped familes, or a group of high school kids that go to a homeless shelter and helped to fix the place up a bit, or the group of high school kids that flew up to Idaho to help get a small church on its feet. You’ll never see that. By the way, all of those examples I stated were from personal experience. Welcome to America. Where the media controls everything.
Mr Wilson highlights that a book written thousands of years ago is insanity. That is totally futile. If everyone lived their lives according to God’s guidance from the scriptures there would be less problems in this world to content with. When man disobeys God’s strict moral standards, then he reaps what he sows. But because man has selfish intentions who thinks he knows the answers to everything, its obvious without a doubt, its the system that is insane and its the system of things God will put an end to very soon.
Very sad indeed…
It comes down to this… the kid had the Free Will to do what he did. I believe that God gave us the Free Will to do what we please, but that doesn’t mean there won’t be any consequences. Personally, I think there is way more to life than the short years here on earth… so death is not a concern for me.
Yes, I know a lot of you hate Christians, which is fine, we were told that many would hate us. And were also told to love who hate us, and I do.
You can blame the mother, you can blame the kid, you can blame religion, but you [i]cannot[/i] blame God.
I will pray for the Kid, and for the mother, as for all those who have so much hate to share.
Dean
What if a procrastinator killed himself because everyone was making him feel inadequate–whose fault would that be?
If i’ve learned anything about Christianity (myself being a Catholic), it’s that love is the prevailing doctrine. With this form of Christianity in its purest I have no objections, but when the religion is divided in order to accentuate our differences rather than discuss them, tragic events like this happen.
The mother and her son had vastly different views on human sexuality (in my estimation a non-moral [I.E. completely separate from morality altogether] topic), but the bottom line is that God loved them both, and in placing judgments on the son (that his ways were wrong), the mother failed to love her son in his most vulnerable moment.
Any “Christian” who places judgments on each other has erred; it is not our place to judge.
Everyone is responsible for his / her actions regardless of the circumstances. Any procrastinators I know (myself included), are too laid back to ever think about killing themselves.
alright, you all seem to have a lot of comments about the mother, but did you know the kid. probably not. He had to be pretty fucked to kill himself. kill’em all let god sort the out
The sad part about this is that the boy probably died without finding God. I hope some of you will find God before you die. There is no life apart from Jesus Christ. If he would have lived to be 100 and never found God, his life would have been wasted. The bible says that when the love of God grows cold, people are given over to reprobate minds and turn to loving there own sex. That’s what’s happening now in this world of atheism where people think they have the answer to everything. The mother was wrong in that she tried to tell him that works would save him. He didn’t need to do anything but seek God with his whole heart.
Betsy’s a fucking idiot, so I feel sorry for her.
The boy sounded smart, though.
And you all sound like geniuses.
Hmmmmmmmmmm…….
The same people who are so dismissive of Christians are the ones choosing to let these not-so-radical few represent an entire culture. You pass judgement just like she did to her son.
Congrats.
You lumped yourself into the same ignorant category which you so adamantly loathe by ATTEMPTING to isolate yourself with poorly constructed intellectualism. Go back to your day job or school or otherwise meaningless routine and keep over analysing life — if it makes you feel superior or enlightened in some way, just keep doing it.
The rest of us will stay blissfully happy with ourselves.
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uhh, I realize you guys are having fun with your God-hating rhetoric that so many people are quick to jump on, but you do realize that this whole post is fake, right? You think this lady really posted all this bs about her son, and then made a point to get back on the board in the midst of her son’s “death” to post about that too??? Give me a break!! this was obviously fabricated by someone trying to make a point about how “poisonous” Christianity is with a quaint little “case-scenario”. C’mon, don’t get suckered in just because you can’t wait to find a justification to hate God and Jesus, etc etc..
Come on, people. Read what she wrote again. It’s very very obvious that it’s a setup. The person most likely isn’t a woman, doesn’t have a son, and sure doesn’t have one that killed himself as described. A simple critical reading of “her” story shows a few obvious biases and mistatements about Christian beliefs. For example:
“but that his salvation was in danger if he did not resist his unnatural tempations. I told him how being gay would mean he would live a shorter life”
This is very obviously an attempt by an anti-Christian person or organization to stir up exactly the feelings being expressed here.
Every single one of you are sheep
You’d follow a fucking cow to a slaughterhouse if you thought it was justified. Never in my life have I seen so many ignorant lemmings soak up so much fabricated propaganda.
When are you going to stop being spoon-fed this bullshit and start THINKING FOR YOURSELVES? Some website, with no respectable author, tells you what to think and you believe every word of it.
Dear God. I hope this generation does not … PLEASE … does not have to run the country some day. DEAR GOD PLEASE
/scared-shitless
Ok, so being an openly gay male whom once had to go through this type of situation, i understand completely. Its hard to define the period of time that you spend in the closet. I knew for years that i was different, and as i grew up it became harder and harder to hide it. When you are hiding such a secret you learn to analyze people within the first few minutes of meeting them. It can be alot, and the stress really takes its toll. I remember when I knew I had to come out. It was my 2nd suicide attempt and i knew then that it had to stop. Im lucky because my parents are quite liberal, and although dissapointed and uncomfortable, they still supported me. To this day I know that I have fought my battles and won, and now i realize that I was perfectly fine until society, or these fundamentalists in society, taught me to be ashamed of who I really was. I really feel bad this kid didnt have anyone to talk to about it, maybe in time his mother would have understood. Its just sad, even if this story isnt sad, something needs to change.
omg, so sad
@bobert, the woman merely repeated what Family Research Council and nearly every antigay religious ministry says…in their own words.
NovaNET:
“and now i realize that I was perfectly fine until society, or these fundamentalists in society, taught me to be ashamed of who I really was”
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You SHOULD be ashamed of who you really are.
By the way, I like how you lump everyone who feels this way as fundamentalists lololo — Very liberal way of thinking eh!? Hah I love it, daily dose of comedic relief
Now go and be ashamed. You’re truly a freak.
You guys talk about “non-understanding”, and about how the mother needs to have been “accepting” but look at you guys: you’re being the same type of bigot – not accepting the view that belongs to someone else.
And no, the mother didn’t murder the son, she didn’t kill him. Saying she did is like saying that the cola machine makers are responsible for all the dimwits who get crushed by them every year.
Maybe YOU would have handled the situation differently but to preach acceptance and understanding just makes you look like a bigot.
My sympathy to all parties involved.
Is this for real? It reads exactly like something you’d find on landoverbaptist or something, especially the:
“I talked it over with his therapist, who had the ludicrous idea that homosexuality was unchangable and that trying to repress could lead to lots of psychological damage (I’ve dropped him and will try to be finding another therapist with more moral beliefs). I wouldnt be surprised if he’s the one who’s feeding my son all the homosexual propaganda about how its ‘ok’ to be gay. ”
Also, she’s using smileys in that thread. Lines like: “But wasnt it my fault for not accepting him?
“. Who does that?
Yeah I think the mother was right; maybe a little bit pushy. She should have let him know that she loves him and will never reject him; the same way that Jesus never rejects any of us. Then in hindsight she should have left it a few days and then let him know her views. Which are not just her views but God’s views as well.
Do you know the number of kids that grow up thinking that they are gay. It’s a large percentage in my country. Sure a lot of girls lick carpet for some sort of twisted social recognition and I think at that young age with hormones racing it’s hard to tell what is going on. Let alone if you are gay or not.
If you’re referring to Betty, then you’re right, I can’t verify if her story is true; the posts predate my blog by two years. But even if it turns out not to be true, the point of my post still stands.
Go play in traffic.
If there were no Christianity, there would just be some other religion to feed her ideas that she lacks in her own mind.
I’ll bet this is a complete fake, written by someone who wants to publicize the idea that something like this *could* happen. Just the way the “mother’s” account is written, it feels like a set up and doesn’t feel like what someone genuinely in her situation would have said.
Of course I could be wrong, but I hope not for that kid’s sake, if he exists.
Religion is for the weak that just want to justify their existence. Religion kills just as many as it saves, as almost every war in history was fought over beliefs, or territory that was considered religious. Religion is the greatest form of hypocrisy there is. It is a creed that is devoid of logic, reason, and moreover, science.
Ethics can exist without some divine being to live our lives by. I used to be a Christian until I realized that it really was Evil. The purest form of Evil is that which impersonates Good. Christians do not care about Christ; they just distort the teachings of Christ and the Bible, which by the way are thousands of years old and have been translated through so many languages that they probably have little semblance to the original stories.
This woman is a prime example of the saving grace of religion: it allows you to be ignorant and for it to still be okay. Homosexuality is a genetic defect that has existed since the beginning of time. The chemicals in your brain control how you feel, and any slight irregularity can cause depression, mania, fear, and attraction–sometimes to the same sex. It is only now that gays are “coming out” because fascist Christians have kept them in fear for so long and they are now fighting back. Religious fanatics think homosexuality is a perversion when it is IN FACT a genetic variation. You can’t tell a gay to stop being gay any more than you can tell a black person to stop being black, and there is nothing wrong with either of those.
You want to talk perversion? How about fixing the problems with sodomy between priests and children in the church before attempting to “fix” Christianity. Or how about perverting the teachings of Jesus? I’m sure he didn’t hate gays. It’s possible even some of his apostles were gay. Heck, it’s possible even Jesus himself was gay. What would you think of that then, hmm?
So if you want to be a fascist and hate gays, fine, but keep your ignorant mouth shut about it. And all that talk of sinning is hypocrisy because hating gays for being “perverted” is just WRATH in its purest form.
Regardless if this story is true, this kind of thing happens all the time. That woman killed her child with ignorance, and she will have to accept the consequences. Jesus taught us to love, not hate. Accept people for who they are and stop trying to change them.
There is no doubt in my mind that this story was fabricated. But, for the sake of discussion, a lot of sense has been made here. The boy WAS responsible for his own actions. The mother COULD have been more patient. Fundamentalism DOES have its pitfalls. Jesus WAS a historical person. And, it IS a scary thought for this generation to be running a country.
Now, from my point-of-view, the Bible says homosexuality is a sin. If you believe the Bible, then you ought to believe that, too. If you don’t believe the Bible, then your beliefs about homosexuality are gathered from another source (i.e. yourself, your parents, TV…).
My story: I’ve tried the suicide thing a couple of times in the past. One time because my grades were getting really rough in high school. Another time because I had an addiction that wouldn’t let go. The only thing they have in common is my inability (lack of desire) to keep going, hold on, move passed it all. I made the decision both times.
Epilogue: You folks toward the top of the comment list; you’re not the first people to hate Christianity. You’re not even the first to hate hypocrits within Christian churches. In fact, Jesus beat you to it (read about how Jesus responded to the hypocrits of his day).
we open-minded people have dealt with intolerance for far too long a time.
we’ve sat by and let others cling to thier unreasonable and unfounded beliefs because they have should have the right to do so. but it’s killed too many in not only instances such as this, but wars as well. religion is nothing more than a means to use guilt and fear to control others, that is all it has ever been.
I DECLARE WAR ON ALL RELIGION. keep it to yourself. you can’t prove any of it has legitimacy, so let it fester in your imagination so the rest of us don’t have to deal with it.
do your part to let everyone around you who thinks its ok to hate gays or anyone else, know that they are not only backward thinking scum, but if there is a hell they will probably end up there for being such peices of shit.
keep this in mind, christians- there is no way all those millions of gay people are faking it. if there is a god he definately made them gay, and who the fuck are you to question him?
p.s. while we’re talking about god’s intentions, he didn’t scatter marijuana and psyilocyben all over the planet so we could make them illegal. think about it.
“It caused his death — if there was no Christianity, he would still be alive”
You know, my mom was a great student of history. I used to ask her when I was a little girl, watching old war films on tv while she was doing the ironing, “Why didn’t somebody try to kill Hitler before 1939?”
She said, “The sad thing is about history, is even if he had been removed, there’s always somebody right behind to that place.”
Islam anyone? I love all the mary’s that tell me they’re Buddhist–ever read what the Dalai Lama had to say about gay people? Sects of Judiasm…Yeah, and Hindus love it when you even broach the subject…
All religions (aka barely coherent rabid belief systems) are Hitler. Some speak a little gentler, but same raw deal. Sleep with dogs, wake up with fleas, Betty. Have a nice life.
I agree with you, but that’s a bit beyond the scope of what I was trying to say. I’m referring to a specific problem in modern America, and that problem is caused by fundamentalist Christianity.
It initially struck me as possibly fake as well, but I didn’t really have any means to check it. Her story has been referenced on several other sites, one I mentioned (fstds), so I decided to give it the benefit of the doubt. One thing is for sure, though: this sort of scenario is occurring all across America.
I just browsed through the topic she made. So tragic.
THE FIRST ANSWER she received in her first topic would have made perfect sense… Leave the kid grow until he’s mature enough, and give him just what he needs for now – mother’s LOVE.
I pity how the forum administrator butchered the whole situation by giving statistics and biblical references instead…
I’m a Christian, a fundamentalist one, and I’m sad too.
If I may point out that it was the kid who killed himself, not the mother. I am not saying that what she said didn’t agitate the situation, but in the end it was the kid who couldn’t handle it. There are alot of people who go through far worse things and don’t kill themselves. I met a man who’s father locked him in the attic and would turn out the lights and prowl around until he found him then beat him until he was unconcious. This went on for years – from childhood to adolescence. Today the man is a Christian and a motivational speaker, and his relationship with Jesus Christ transformed his entire life. Of course, he could have just killed himself too. He went through alot more than that kid did. It’s still tragic, but don’t blame it on the mother, I am sure she feels bad enough already. Give your head a shake people; there’s still such thing as right and wrong in this world. We are responsible for our actions; you can’t say that someone “made” you do something. They may influence you, but ultimately you make the decision whether you will end it all or continue on in life.
As for Christianity and Jesus Christ, neither are going away. Various “educated” people have tried for centuries to wipe Jesus and His Message off the face of the earth and they have faded into obscurity but the Gospel still brings joy, life and peace to untold millions. Hmmm….maybe there’s something to it huh? I find it interesting that many people on the Internet are so quick to point out all the “evil” that relegion is spreading, yet they fail to talk about cases like my cousin who’s life is being turned around from a life of drugs, despair, and suicidal depression to a life of peace, purpose and fulfillment, or the communities we reach out to every weak and help broken and hurting people mend their families and stay off drugs, or what about my other cousin who came from a totally broken family with all the odds against her, yet now today has a happy and normal life because of her relationship with Jesus Christ. You are focusing on the bad; but there is hope all around…maybe it’s time our generation started fixing things instead of just complaining…anyways, I got some work to do tomorrow; a dream to follow, a friend to help, and even a girlfriend who I am saving myself for until we get married.
I don’t regret it for a moment.
Poor boy…I feel sorry for him…I wish I could have talked with him. May his family find resolution and peace.
I think that since this is a very emotional incident, because of that I think it really did clouded some of the readers’ judgement in regard to the problem. It’s understandable to be angry, but it’s also for the greater good that we can come to an understanding from this tragic incident, and for that I’ll attempt to discuss the root issue.
The truth is, none of us have much insights toward Betty’s son, and what he had encounter in his life that drove him to commit suicide. For something as serious as this, it usually involves a combination tragic experiences. Don’t get me wrong, by no means am I defending his mother’s action which is very apparent to others and herself (as much as the others trying to shift the blame off her, and the value of Christianity in order to cover their blind-faith’s rear) contributed to his death. But at the end of it, it comes to a matter of choice, even for fundamentalist Christians. As we all know, it’s almost not within human nature and ability to follow Christian values in its exact. Within a civilized society, they best they could do is choose acceptable values and enforce them to the best of their ability. Ironically, it is this “choice” that modern Christians teaching fail to include. (Even though it’s made very clear in the bible)
It was Betty’s choice to accept her beliefs. It was also her choice to applied it to others forcefully. It was her choice to not simply accept her son for who he is, and pray for his sin (as she sees homosexuality is a sin), or seek other alternatives that will relieve the guilt toward her faith. Yes, her religious believes played a role on influencing her thoughts, but it was her, ultimately who choose to reject her own son.
In terms of speaking in life, you get some you lose some. Betty lost her child, but on the other hand she gains the acceptance, and respect by outsiders that shares her faith for standing up for their beliefs. Was it worth it? Let’s look around the world.
I’d like to add several things to this discussion, if one can call it that. Firstly, at this point it seems almost immaterial as to whether the original story is true or not. Certainly, if it is true than it is indeed tragic, but even if the original story is not true, the true tragedy of the divisions caused by cases like these is readily apparent even in this thread.
Secondly, I’d like to address comments both by some admitted Christians who felt hurt (and not without merit) at the hate they felt directed at them, and at some comments by those such as Sane which were directed at them. I think the key here, and one which is blurred, misstated, and often forgotten, is what I would call the difference between belief and religion. Though I myself don’t believe in the existence of God, I would not question the rights of others to have this belief.
Clearly, however, the question here is not a belief in God, but a belief in the utter truth and sanctity of the Bible. This is where many modern Christians start to fall into the “hypocrisy” trap, taking some tenets of Christianity as gospel truth and ignoring others. In this case, I would actually agree with some of Sane’s statements, although likely for different reasons. Clearly, if you believe that the bible is God’s word on earth, then taking a position like that of the mother is not wrong, indeed it is necessary. You love your child and as such clearly would not want to see them live what you believe is a life of sin. Clearly, here, for those who do not believe that this is indeed the case (myself included) the enemy is not the mother but the institution itself. I would, however, question Sane as to whether he keeps Kosher, for is not the old testament also the word of God?
This brings me to my final point, which is the necessity of conversation in today’s society. And by conversation, I mean a reasonable dialog of discussion, rather than a he said, she said, you’re an idiot catalog of mistakes that have gone on since the beginning of time. The problem with hate, fear, and anger are that these emotions tend to override discussions that could possibly lead to solutions of the underlying problems. Aside from a very few, the majority of the people on this board would consider the suicide of a boy a travesty. Gay, straight, Christian, Atheist, liberal, or conservative, nobody wants to see events like this happen. Similarly, the majority of people in this world don’t want to see more wars or more abortions (even if you believe that a woman has a right to have an abortion, it isn’t something that you would want to see happen). This is why we should turn forums like this into places for creative thought rather than arenas in which to have ego wars. For mentioning PFLAG I applaud the efforts of Readsalot and similar posters.
There are compromises we can make and there are things which we can agree upon. Rather than losing hope and feeling sick we should think of how to reach people like this kid and his mother before things like this happen. Calling them ignorant fundamentalists is not the way to go about doing this. Rather inviting them to find common ground is.
No Betty your son wont burn in hell. YOU WILL. This is all your fault. I have no sympathy for you. Your a terrible mother for putting religion, which is all a bunch of bullshit some people wrote in a book a couple a thousands of years ago, before your own son! No one knows anything about religion or the existence of god. What YOU did know for a fact is that your son was in pain and had nowhere to go and you drove him to suicide with your bible bullshit. You dont deserve children.
anyway I gotta go. I have a to get my daily dose of media brainwashing to keep myself a homosexual.
The greatest illusion the devil cast on man was convincing man that the devil was really GOD.
look, the main line here is that the bible can be interpreted in so many ways. some people interpret it so deeply that a basic concept is lost. isn’t the basic concept love one another? how great would that be. simple as that. no war, no hate, no violence.
she could have been nicer. accepted him for what he was and didn’t try to change him RIGHT THEN AND THERE. He’s coming out to you and you SAY you accept him and then you say that his salvation is at risk? WTF? She probably doesn’t know what he’s gone through with his “friends”, peers at school and the last thing he needs is a mother’s hateful judgment. Probably just wanted a hug.
she could have talked about the salvation next week you know.
Religion is for those who come to terms with life by not trying to prove to themselves who created them. They simply accept age old wisdom in exchange for trying to know the truth first hand. Faith is all that matters.
Atheists come to terms with reality by accepting their life at a logical face value, never desiring to entertain the possibility of what seems illogical. Proof is all that matters.
Faith doesn’t need proof and proof has no place for faith. Human emotions respond to thoughts and concepts.
This child obviously could not face the dilemma he found himself in. The mother was trying to explain to him that no one will love him enough to change his Depends when he gets old, nor have a loving memory of him when he is gone. That his emotions would lead him to that end.
Don’t speak of an loving “adopted” family being exactly the same as a loving biological family. It isn’t. Neither are bad, only one is more desirable. She wanted for him to have the chance for that experience. Clearly the proof of his feelings flew in the face of that age old parental wisdom.
Sad story about how religion is no longer being able to adequately communicate ancient and true wisdom to a world that can only barely understand that there is so much more to reality than we can ever fathom.
What a load of horseshit. This has got to be another Urban legend in the making. Do you not realize how often something like this will be written for no other reason than to rile people up? The story that mom supposedly wrote sounds like pure nonsense whyped up for this very reason. Of course it would have appeared in some gay commuity or website for no other reson than to incite some extra hatred toward the religious right. Your posting this horeseshit is irresponsible. I’ll just bet you feel sick. Sick that nobody is paying attention to you or your blog. So you go over to Digg and post your own UR
Ll just to get people to read this shit. The ether is not as dumb as you look.
Daddio is a classic example of religious fanatic. Aim harder and look for the the real issue before you laid your accusations (which you equally have no proof as in it happens for real or not). These are real people talking about real issues in our society. The Betty incident is a product of those problems.
Hmmm…usually people who hate Christianity so much have a lot of skeletons in the closet. Their worst fear is to have their sick minds and sins exposed to God, so they think it is best to get rid of God at all. Sorry, it doesn’t work this way, you can pretend the sun is not out there by shutting the window.
Gay people are privileged today, but they don’t want more rights, they want everybody to say that they are great, that sticking a penis in the anus is natural. Inside, they know it is such a BS, byt they need to feel better, to calm dwn their own internal shame. Yes, because it is impossible to do something so weird and feel good about yourself. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SOCIETY OR RELIGION, unnatural behavior makes you feel bad because you know deep inside it is wrong.
It’s ok to have your belife, but keep it yours and don’t force it on others. People like Betty can be related to finatical belivers of other religions which bomb people because they think it is going to get them to their god quicker. I’m sad that this boy was pushed so far to kill himself that takes a lot to get to the point where you are going to kill yourself. Truly so many people could have helped him.
There is nothing wrong with being gay and I wish people would get over it, people do not do it just to be cool. Some people are just gay, much like others are straight. It’s already hard enough being gay, knowing that you will not have kids (not naturally at least) is a good example of that. Everyone here knows that but it needs to be reinforced in the extreme parts of the community.
I have a feeling that this story is either made up or is not be represented correctly.
Regardless, when someone commits suicide, they are solely responsible for their actions. It is not the mother’s fault any more than it is yours or mine. Modern “victim” mentality, blaming others for our mistakes, should be eschewed in favor of taking responsibility for our actions.
The mother does not deserve to die any more than you do or I do, regardless of what she’s done. Blaming the mother is a cop-out.
I completely understand your hate for Christian FUNDAMENTALISTS, but Christianity all together I do not. I’m a Christian my self, and I share your hate for Betty, and the Fundamentalist community. By I accept homosexuality, I believe evolvution is the fact that we are here, and that God was responsiblefor allowing the narrow odds to bring us where we are today. No before I get side-tracked, I view this as something that God would truly frown upon.
Everything else I want to say has been said.
i think the kid was weak, F what his mother things, he said it himself that he knew she would’nt understand… why so shocked? why take away your life? foolish as his mother.
It’s been funny reading all the ‘Christianity is to blame’, ‘Christianity hates homosexuals’, ‘Christianity isn’t true’, and ‘I don’t believe the Bible but still like to call myself Christian’ remarks here. You guys really should get out more, and stop coming out with such uninformed hate. Has even one of you done an alpha course or similar to find out what the Bible really says?
According to the story at the top, the mother stated that (a) she still loved her son, and (b) God still loved her son. As for expecting the mother to act against her conscience, and against her beliefs, why should she? Expecting her to is completely hypocritical, as you weren’t expecting the son to act as a heterosexual, and (judging by most of the comments) nor are you open to considering changing your own beliefs; why should the mother then be forced to act against her beliefs? Moreover, she acted in a loving, non-violent manner (contrary to much of the anti-Christian hate posted above).
Saying that you hate Christianity is precisely the same kind of rash, reactionary, blanket statement that those Christians you hate use against gays, sinners, etc.
How hypocritical and judgmental of you – two traits you identify and despise in funamentalists.
I’m a Christian and I am saddened deeply by this situation. But I’m amused by the blind mob mentality of “this is why I hate Christianity.” Talk about “coming out of a cave of fear” (sifumoking). Pathetic.
The woman is a troll. Her posts are meant to tweak the other Christians on that thread. They fell for it and so have most of you guys.
“if there was no Christianity, he would still be alive”
A lot, a lot, a lot, a lot of people would be alive if Christianity, specifically very religious Christianity would not be here.
Like you, fundamentalist really annoy me and sometimes even anger.
Legit or not, there are people out there that think like that. Think for yourselves people, don’t use a book as a guide for your life. Be fair, be kind and be understanding. Is it that difficult?
I guess the irony is that she probably thinks that God is punishing her for raising a gay child.
@Sane,
Religion and morality couldn’t be more opposite. Morality in society doesn’t advance because of religion, morality advances in spite of religion.
“I fear there is little hope for kids raised by these people.”
So has every generation before you and humanity still persists.
To accuse others of picking and choosing when you clearly pick and choose as well is pure hypocrisy. Every fundamentalist is religious by convenience, not by conviction. You don’t kill others in the name of your religion, you don’t punish adulterers with death. Therefor you are a hypocrite. Stopping the hypocrisy comes in realizing that the bible has relevance until it is proven otherwise, such is the case with capital punishment for sexual deviancy. So unless you’re saying that homosexuality is one of God’s mistakes, then you are dead wrong, and an instrument for intolerance and hatred. While society is trying to advance moral relativism, fundamentalism continues to try and suppress it in favour of it’s own cruel and intolerant absolutism.
To scope my comments, I do believe in God. I believe that God is Eternal but the bible is timely, and in some cases, a dead letter. But I do believe that parts of the bible have relevance. Parts that say things like, we (humans) are the stewards of the earth. As such, as our understanding of the creation around us grows, so does our interpretation of the past, and so should our interpretation of the future. Faith is a living and breathing trait of humanity. It’s growth cannot be suppressed, and cannot remain rooted in unchangeable timely influence and assumption. Rather it must learn and grow and mature. I believe in evolution as part of God’s eternal plan. As the mechanism of his creation. This has nothing to do with the reasoning for his creation.
Interestingly enough, I also believe that religious fundamentalists of all faiths are instruments of evil. That they are one of the aforementioned ‘wolves in sheep’s clothing’. Satan is taken for granted in this world, and he is VERY very good at his job. But peace and tolerance will always overcome hatred and fear.
Think about it, fundamentalism causes people to hate gays. That is an instant red flag that something is wrong when a religion fuels hatred.
Let me make sure I understand you correctly.
You’re blaming this kid’s death on his mother and Christianity? If his mother had pulled out an AK-47 and blown his head off in the public square, would you hate her then to?
That’s what happens to you in places where REAL fundamentalism is practiced. Don’t like the guy your family is arranging for you to marry? That earns you a pot of boiling oil or a hefty splash of battary acid to the face. And who can forget female circumcision? You just have to be female to earn that in places it’s practiced. Do you hate them and their religious faith to?
The kid killed *HIMSELF*. It’s an unfortunate fact that kids kill themselves every day in every country around the world. His mother tried to help him in the only way she knew how but it didn’t work. Does it suprise you that a child would reject a parent’s attempt to help them? We all did that when we were young. It’s a shame that he chose that way out but he’s in the minority; most people don’t commit suicide in response to problems within the family.
For those of you that still cling to the belief that Christianity has caused more deaths than everything under the sun, think again. The combined efforts of Jews, Christians, and Muslims can’t hold a candle to the carnage caused by Atheism. The Nazi’s made certain that churches and organized religion were stamped out in preference to worshiping Hitler as the only authority. The Goddless utopia envisioned by the communists in the Soviet Union made Hitler’s efforts look childish; Hitler killed around 8 million. The Soviets killed 40 million in their purges and gulags. Nobody will ever know how many millions died in Cambodia, another product of Atheism. The death toll for all of the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, and the witch hunts for the US and Europe COMBINED look like loose change in the ash try by comparison. Don’t take my word for it, do the research yourself like I did.
There are a few on this board who emphasize the notion, “if there was no Christianity, he would still be alive!” Good notion for people of the world who do not have accurate knowledge of the scriptures.
The day of no Christianity is rapidly approaching, the Bible clearly brings out that we are living in the last days of this system of things. When that day is upon us like “a thief in the night,” all false religion will be exposed and everyone affiliated with it will be cut off from the earth.
If a person is homosexual and does not seek treatment (yes there is help) then God says, “let them wallow in their filth,” because there are several factors that “WILL NOT” inherit God’s Kingdom, of which homosexuality and all who support it is a part of.
It will be the glorified Jesus Christ who will judge this young man who took his own life whether he is worthy of the resurrection. As for the rest of you living on this earth, because of the coming tribulation I would worry about my own fate rather than this young fellow. Remember “death is the wages of sin,” you people alive will be facing something much worse.
When will the world open it’s eyes up to the constant discrimination that goes on all over the place from getting a job to renting an apartment. We have things in applications that discrimination on the grounds of race,sex, creed, religion is against the law yet discriminating on a persons Sexual orientation is just OK? Even in this country(USA) that prides itself on how great a society we have and how everyone is let to live their life and to chase their dreams, they left out the clause of “unless your a Homosexual” and “If you are don’t tell anyone don’t display it in public and Hide it from the rest of us please”
The utter ridiculousness of this is maddening at least. People should be able to be who they are, Gay, Straight, BI, How does your orientation make you any less of a person.
Religion lets talk about that for a min
for better of worse lets say that at least 70% of the Worlds population believes in a higher power in one form or another. Then why is it if a person told you that he spoke to GOD you would then say he was crazy and needed to be committed?!(of course I don’t mean a mentally ill person who says GOD told him to kill everyone ect ect)
that right there tells you how Religion is a bunch of BS, all the commandments and such can be summed up in one word for why religion was developed
ORDER
to maintain a system where people live by and abide by a set of rules
thats all it is nothing more and nothing less.
More people have been killed over Religion than anything else in this world
religion in my opinion makes people feel that what they are doing is GOD’S will and therefore it is OK. It’s OK to tell your son that he should fight these urges and that he has a problem thus shunning him instead of accepting him for who he is. No one ever said he had to agree with it but to do what she did makes me sick. Saying things like unnatural temptations, leading to a shorter life? who told you that? or be celibate most ex-gays are – where is this woman getting her information from???
in closing religion is full of it, this mother needs help, and her son is gone because of what we as a society expect him to be and don’t accept him for who he is
@Rahyl
I hate to point out the fact that your blaming those death’s on atheism, when in fact those were politically motivated murders. It wasn’t atheism killing people, it was the communists and the nazis, nice try though. Oh and your an atheist as well, everyone is an atheist, it just depends on how far you take it. I’m an atheist to all religions, you’re an atheist to all religions except for your own. I’m sure you laugh at people who still worship Apollo much the same way I laugh at you for worshiping “god”.
Ding dong, soon Christianity will be gone!
I’m gonna dance on its grave. Stupid hypocritical bullshit.
This is typical behavior from someone who is faithful. She was terrified of her boy going to hell for being GAY! This is nothing new and has happened countless times before this kid. I’m sorry it happened to him but hey, mom and her fear of hell basically guaranteed the kid a spot in hell for killing himself. Assuming of course there is a hell, which I don’t believe there is.
If there is heaven and hell, my sexual orientation isn’t going to be what determines whether or not I go there. If there is an almighty god, it knows whether you are a genuinely good person or not. It knows if you are remorseful and try to makeup for the mistakes and pain you cause others.
But, trying to tell a Christian that there is no heaven or hell and that gay is good, would be the same as trying to convince me that black people are evil niggers who need to be killed. It’s not going to happen no matter how hard you try.
wow, you people are such damn hypocrites, its unbelievable. and you take no responsability for your actions. the kid killed himself (according to the story) NOT the mother. she just said that what he was doing is wrong. SO WHAT?? stuff my atheist, anti-christian dad has told me is way worst and waay more intolerant and hurtful, and i have yet to kill myself. (ohh i can already smell you haters saying “well maybe you should”). i have already forgiven him, and i still love him.
hate christians? hate christianity? hate the mom for believing differently? wow, you really should introspectively analyze yourselves, it is YOU who is hating and being intolerant.. read this sentence:
i hate christians and how they constantly push their ideals on us and are so intolerant of everyone who thinks differently.
now, replace the word “christians” with “gays”.. now imagine instead of you saying it, its me.. wow, im so intolerant.. oh no wait, that was YOU who said it, about ME..
hypocrites.
“The day of no Christianity is rapidly approaching, the Bible clearly brings out that we are living in the last days of this system of things.”
No it is not, and no it doesn’t. Your opinion that the ‘end is nigh’ is the same opinion of the early Christians, and every generation of Christians since the year of our lord 1.
Your hope is fueled by your assumption and fundamentalism.
Take a good look at this thread. Just do a word search on this page for the word “hate”. Look at everyone who has so much hatred for someone they do not know, not just Betty, but Jesus. For what…for guiding her son in the way that she saw fit. She simply told him that she and God loved him, but the lifestyle he was leading was wrong. There is NOTHING wrong with that. It is called PARENTING. You people who are pointing fingers at Christianity as the root of the problem have some unresolved issues apparently. Sooner or later people have to take responsibility for their own actions. There ARE consequences in this life, whether you want to believe that or not, it IS true…it is not up for debate like religion is. Why would you feel so much hatred for what someone believes. Last time I checked, this was a matter of choice pertaining to the individuals personal preference. You are doing the same thing as psycho’s out there who hate homosexuals. It’s identical. You’re trading one way of bigotry and hypocrisy for another. Here’s the way it goes:
Psycho Christians hate gays and U.S. soldiers and abortionists
In return:
Gays hate Christians, and/or choose what they want to believe out of the Bible, in essence forming their own religion inside of Christianity by claiming God approves. This makes them feel better about their decision to disobey God and makes it “justified” if you will. This causes grief from REAL Christians. By “REAL”, I mean Christians who believe the Bible. Who live the life God told them to lead. By grief, I mean, them TELLING THEM IT IS WRONG. If the boy was raised believing he was a Christian himself, then it was the mother’s duty, not only as a mother, but as a fellow Christian to tell him what he was doing was wrong. So, blaming her for his death is not only retarded and idiotic, even casting religion out of the equation, it is simply preposterous by any means.
Atheists and Liberals see what goes on with the Gays, even if they themselves are not gay, but jump on the bandwagon of Christian bashing because of past experiences with Christians who they hate, or simply because it’s something they fail to understand.
People, there have to be rules and morals. There ARE consequences in this life. You can’t feel sorry for yourself when these consequences are reaped for your actions. YOU made the choice, just like the son made the choice to end his life. You people said that he could’ve moved on, and lived a beautiful life. Yes, he could have. He could have accepted his mother’s guidance, or at least been receptive to her opinion (which by his actions, shows you that he was immature and irresponsible – any mature adult, or even adolescent growing up, should at least be able to tolerate an intelligent discussion about your life choices without throwing a temper tantrum and then debating suicide because someone simply disagrees) before jumping to commit suicide.
My stance:
I am a Christian. I was raised in church and went to a Christian school. I do not believe certain things that my church and school taught me growing up. Why? Because there are certain things that they taught that I felt was taken out of context in the Bible. I believe what the Bible says, not what anyone would tell me to believe over the years. This is what I urge EVERYONE to do. Research it for yourself. Don’t believe that because some guy a long time ago found a bone or some crap that we used to be monkeys. Do your own research and devise your own conclusion of what you believe. Blind hatred will not solve anything, it will only make you a bigot and a fool.
I will not ever meet a homosexual, an atheist, or agnostic and tell them that I hate them. I will never meet anyone for that matter, and tell them that I hate them. Why? Because the opposite of hate is love. Just as the mother in this story told her son that she still loved him, in spite of the lifestyle he was choosing to lead, bypassing her guidance and advice, she STILL loved him. Christ loves each and every one of you. It doesn’t matter if you are agnostic, atheist, or undecided. He didn’t die a painful and agonizing death for nothing. It was a demonstration of the ultimate sacrifice to show you how much he loves you. I pray that people will one day see the light, instead of attempting to change reality and history. It’s a futile effort my friends. History is already said and done, reality is set in place, and the future is up to you
I think that to say “if there were no Christianity he would still be alive” is a pretty asinine thing to say, not to mention the seriously unintelligible structure of that statement. saying that is on par with saying something like, if the sun didn’t exist we wouldn’t have global warming. it’s true, but it makes no sense to say something like that. additionally are you going to say that major influential people who align themselves with Christianity, and bring great help to people in poverty, people who are oppressed, people who other people don’t love would have been better off never doing anything? Jesus himself hung out with the prostitutes, the tax collectors, the sinners, the sick and anyone else who was in need of love. christianity is a faith of love, and i agree with you that the mother was not close to a proper representation of what a christian should be, but don’t bash the philosophy of love because if more people expressed love to people around them the less of these kinds of things would happen.
This looks like someone made it up..the one line sentence she reposted after he supposedly killed himself seemed a bit fake to me …probably just a troll..
Though it’s been reiterated here, the issue is not Christianity itself, it is fundamentalism. The message of the Bible, one of universal love and acceptance, has been distorted by dogma and the will to power of corrupt men.
It is not The Bible’s fault this woman behaved in this way, it was her own lack of will and stubborn adherance to filtered interpretations of this. She represents Christianity no more than militant muslims, warrior Buddhist monks, or polygamist Mormons are representations of their religion. Fundamentalism is a cult, albeit a large one, and should be viewed as such.
@ Nico…
To be honest, the first sentence of your post is the only thing that did not appear to be incoherent babbling. I’m actually being honest…not trying to be an ass.
Morals and ethics were formed FROM the bible. How can they be opposite. Where do you think the basic laws of mankind came from? Do the 10 Commandments ring a bell? Don’t be a tard just because you don’t have the strength or discipline to research anything on your own and believe whatever is convenient or easy for you. If you have no sense of personal conviction, that is YOU. Don’t tell people what they believe is simply convenient and that is why. It would be retarded for you to say that what I chose to believe is “convenient”. Look around at all of the hatred directed at what I believe. That’s convenient? These people don’t know me, yet they hate me simply because I am a Christian. Yet, I am the bigot? Read my last post, and please re-read my other posts before trying to point the finger at me calling me a bigot or a hypocrit.
I did not accuse others of picking and choosing what to believe. The Bible states that homosexuals will not enter the kingdom of heaven. It states that it is a sin. That being said, anyone who claims to be a Christian and says that their lifestyle is ok, is choosing not to believe the parts in the Bible that points those things out. Do I have to spell everything out here? Geez.
My comment about the hope for kids raised by the people here was very simple. For a person who hates Christianity blindly, I am sure their children will be raised believing that as well. Just as a child growing up in a Christian home might be raised that alcohol is a sin, or tattooes are wrong, and piercings are wrong (on men) or wearing a hat in church is wrong…I was raised believing all of these thing, but they are things that either the bible never says, or are taken out of context.
She handled it correctly. Liberals corrupted her son telling him homosexuality is okay. It’s not. Just because all of you don’t believe or agree with God doesn’t make God wrong. He is the creator and he makes the rules. Live by them or suffer the consequences.
So many Christians, so few lions…
You seem to read and interpret bible as it suits you and your beliefs the best. Like it was written last year or century.
When most of the bible was written relationship between men & women were not based on love and affection but ownership and trade. Ie the women became property of the husband.
Husband had the right to have sex with his wife whenever he felt, it was accepted because the man was the head of the family and woman was property of the man. Having sex with a woman was the right the husband had. Ie. husband was superior to the wife.
“do not have sex with a man like you have with a woman” can suggest that “don’t use the power to a man” ie. don’t rape a man as you are able to rape your wife. (sorry I’m not native english speaker).
1. Mos. 19:5-8 for example
But feel free to point me a chapter in bible where love between men is condemned. And please in case you do, refer to whole verses and not some small parts of them. You can twist everything to say whatever you want if you just quote small part of it.
And the subject, I feel disgusted too by the behavior or “Betty”. Even if it’s not true story it could be and even the possibility is disgusting.
If you believe that Christianity is not rapidly approaching, that’s quite alright, millions, perhaps billions share the same sentiments. But if you had any knowledge of what the scriptures bring out as far as prophecies are concerned you would clearly see using mathematics and a chronological reference of modern history that we are the generation Jesus spoke of when he announced that “this generation would by no means pass away until all these things occured.” Take a hard long look Nico, they have already occured, except for the final one in Revelation where the Scarlet Coloured Wild Beast destroys Babylon the Great.
That can happen any day and it can occur within a literal 24 hour day. Assumption is motivated by man, these are facts motivated and written by God.
There are several verses in scripture that condemn the homosexual partners, but love of man to another man is with brotherly affection, not sexual. Homosexuality implies sexual whether anyone wishes to accept that or not.
By the sounds of it, twisting words around to give clarification of homosexuals as being accepted by divine standards is your speciality.
Make no mistake about it, the true God who is the author of the authentic scriptures does not accept homosexuality in any regards of how it is viewed.
Ronald.
Give me the freaking verses then. Whats wrong with you if you can’t do that, you are a sheep and not capable of thinking yourself.
You seem to understand perfectly how people thought about relationships 1500 years ago?
Tell me where in bible God literally forbids homosexuality.
Tell me where in bible Jesus literally forbids homosexuality.
Homosexuality in the context of control and lust is not accepted and in a way of mixing the “natural” way of hierarchy between men and women.
How about 1. Sam 20:30
1 Sam. 18-20, 2 Sam. 1
there’s no mention about rectal intercourse but much about love between to men.
“the true God who is the author of the authentic scriptures does not accept homosexuality in any regards of how it is viewed.”
Then why does he allow it to exist?
Some smiting might be in order, no?
Of course, I’m saying this to someone who believes in a blatant imposiblity, so logic isn’t really going to get me anywhere.
Any no, there is no proof that Jesus ever existed as a historical figure. Not one contemporaneous document mentions him. The first writings that mention Jesus were written decades after his supposed death, and even those writings refer to Jesus having lived in a mythical realm (like the greek gods).
Facts be damned!
I agree with Nate (#94). The kid killed himself. Betty didn’t kill her son. He could have chose not to take his life, he could have choosen not to pursue a gay lifestyle, or he could have decided that he didn’t accept his mother’s beliefs and participated in the gay lifestlye. It was all up to him.
Don’t blame Betty for having morals and trying to teach her son what she felt was right – there’s nothing wrong with that. Granted, she might have handled it better, but her son’s decision to end his life was his own. All of his decision were his own.
If we allow ourselves to become angry because parents teach their kids morals we remove an important foundation to our society, namely the family. When families fail our society fails.
I have to take exception to your last line. While I personally am not a Christian, Christianity is itself not bad. Christianity is a means for people to find a way to a spiritual life. And like any other religion or belief system it only becomes “bad” when people use it to justify intolerance of others.
“if there was no Christianity, he would still be alive”
Would be better written:
“if there were no religious fundamentalists, he might still be alive”
And that really doesn’t work out too well, because I know a fundamentalist Buddhist who tries very hard to let others live as they choose. Even better would be:
“if there were no people with a lack of tolerance for others, he might still be alive”
Your assumption that he “would still be alive” is dependent on the belief that this individual killed himself from lack of acceptance by his mother. What if he’s suffering from clinical depression? Financial troubles? Nasty breakup with his boyfriend? Drug or alcohol addiction and the risks involved with those? Without knowing all the facts, you’re adding a story that may not be correct to the events that occurred. Heck, for all we know he had an unfortunate prescription drug interaction and the mother is assuming it’s a suicide.
To you and your other commentators, I would suggest that the fundamental wrong here is judging the choices and beliefs of others. While I can not defend the actions of the mother in this story, I cannot say that I “hate” her. I would choose not to spend any time with her, and I find her attitudes and beliefs personally offensive. However, it’s her choice to live that way.
I would rather go to any hell (should such a place exist) than spend an eternity in a heaven filled with the judgmental. Last time I checked, a basic tenet of Christian belief systems was that it was up to God to judge and to forgive. Maybe we should let God do that job.
Drew: Well if homosexuality really is immoral, but is it? Who says so, not bible.
Yes the kid had a choice, but we all need some support now and then.
Um…. were you readin the same thing I just did?
Ohh… yeah…. you all must be gay. First off, the kid commited suciude and you blame it on religion? Can any one tell me what one of the 10 commandments is?
How about ohhh… I don\’t know: Thou shall not murder.
Hmm… when you kill yourself Einstiens out their when you kill yourself are you not commiting murder?
Umm… by the way I\’m also having a hard time grasping how the moms over reaction directly contributed to his death. Sure the rejection resulted in emotional stress, but did the mom kill him? NO. He commited suciude. Thats right the mother isn\’t at fault for his death. No matter she did you cannot force someone to commit suciude they must do it thereselfs.
Lastly, my main question what is so wrong with a homosexual getting what he deserves.
I believe in God, but I DO NOT believe that homosexuals are sinners. Jahovahs Witnesses would argue that homosexuality is a sin of lust, and nothing more. Science can prove that homosexuality is something that you are born with. It has been shown that the hypothalamus in gay people is smaller than that of heterosexual people. And even if homosexuality was a chose path – WHO GIVES A FUCK?? These people are happy as they are and they don’t need to hear that they should feel differently.
Looking at this thread…once again I will say. Look at all of the hatred and where it is directed. Nobody said they hated gays in here…only people hating Christians because we choose to have a backbone and believe that there are things that are wrong. I’m not sure what bible you are looking in, if you can not find verses stating that homosexuality is wrong. I’m sure if you just do a google search you’d find more than enough info so appease your curiosity. It isn’t rocket science, and it isn’t complicated. So don’t try to make it complicated by twisting a verse as you see fit so you can justify homosexuality. I’d rather you just be like everyone else and ignore where the bible says it’s wrong, as opposed to taking God’s word out of context.
Who are you to say what people do or do not need to hear? Just because YOU believe something does not take away the right for someone else to believe in something else, and not only believe in something else, but believe that it is their duty to tell others about the joy in salvation that they have found through Christ? That is bigotry and hypocrisy at it’s finest. “Don’t tell me how to live my life, and don’t tell anyone else that they are wrong, but I have my opinion on the subject and I believe I am right.”. That is somewhat of a double negative. Which goes back to my small speech about choosing certain things to believe in. Sort of like me saying, I can commit murder and it’s ok, but nobody else can.
Well, first I should say that this story is sad. But if you think and rationalize, you will see that people are making mistakes like his mom all the time. People who dislike (or hate) fundamentalist Christians, like I used to, can easily fuel their anger even more by reading this article.
But I challenge you to think about other depressed kids/adults who commit suicide. Is this mom worse than a co-worker who taunts and humiliates another? Sure you can say that his mom is his own blood, but haven’t you ever been “too close” to something to see it completely for what it’s worth? Isn’t it every parent’s dream to raise their children the best they can? This mom did that. If her son told her that he would kill himself because of what she said, she wouldn’t say it. Why do you think she wrote the blog before it happened?
You guys should learn something that is probably the toughest thing ever to learn (even tougher than learning the Icelandic language in a week): Forgiveness. I’m not talking about the BS religious “forgiveness.” I’m talking about true, unconditional forgiveness. Period. Gay, straight, black, white, rich, poor, religious, agnostic, atheist. Whatever…just forgive and learn from mistakes.
I see a lot of Anti-Christian sentiment here and just this once I am going to speak out.
Unfortunately Christianity has been given a bad rap by people who really have no business representing it including myself. People say “a loving God this” and “Loving God that” but what everyone fails to realize is he is also an “Angry God” a “Jealous God” and a “Rightous God”. I am so tired of everybody expecting that God must conform to our limited Human standards and that our sense of what God should be is what should prevail in the world. Betty followed her beliefs, as based in the Bible end of story. She didn’t say her son was a bad person but that his salvation was in jeopardy according to biblical standards and that he would need to consider that. I would point out Sodom and Gomorrah but lets look at this at little bit of a different angle for a second. Bibically or Evolutionarily speaking, Homosexuality is a dead end. In the Bible God says it’s wrong and destroyed two cities for that among other things. In Nature it is a genetically unsustainable action that could lead to the narrowing and or elimination of the gene pool. These thing cannot be ignored. I belive in God but I also know that I am not perfect. The difference between myself and most people that reject Him is summed up (to me at least) by arrogance. Humanity in general is loath to believe that there may be a being possed of a higher power, greater intelligence, or more moral code, than our own. One that we may be required to bend our stubborn, and proud egos to. We throw out things that question his existence in one sentence and then curse him in another. We try to put human limits on a being that is not Human and then throw a childish fit when he does not comply with our requests. God does not cause a small boy to kill himself, that was done by the boy, and the influence of a flawed imperfect world. Look to John 8:1-11 and you will see the difference between Christ and those who stand outside abortion clinics, or those who harass the famlies of our fallen soldiers. Read the passage and note, Christ was the only person there with the power to actually condemn this woman and what did he do? We are human and so are taken by our passions, our belief may be so driving and so strong that we are lead down a path that ultimately is counter to what we were striving for. Do I believe in God? Yes. Do in hate Homosexuals? No. Why? Hate is sin but I do believe that Homosexuality is wrong. Betty did what I believe Christ would have her do, she told him that she loved him and that God loved him as well and gave him the facts of the Bible. I don’t believe that she was in any way responsible for his death, the boy was. I know that sounds harsh and some would say I don’t know what I’m talking about. I have children, and in this day of moral laxity I have been forced to consider what I would do if one of my children came home and told me that same thing. I only hope I would have the strengh of character and courage to love my child and let them know that while I love them I fear for them. People see Gods judgements/punishments as harsh but do we not love our own children while disciplining them? Rember to God our physical bodies are temporary but it is our souls that are important. You may ask why He allows things like Cancer and AIDS, and driveby shootings etc…. The answer is that He doesn’t allow them, we do. The Bible says that disease is the product of Sin. Stop the Sinning and eventually the disease will go away. The trick is, we can’t because we’re not perfect and God knows this. That’s why he gave us Christ, to make a bridge between Him and Us. It’s also the reason why Christ is the ONLY way into Heaven. If your child (technically not accurate as Chirst was God in human form but sort of makes my point) had made such an enormous sacrific as Christ did would it be possible that you would only want those people around you that appreciated his sacrifice, accepted it for what it was and kept those away who did not appreciate it or even worse derided it? Am I a Hypocrite? Yes, but then so is everybody else. In God’s eyes all sinful things are the in weight. It does not matter what it but that it was. The Bible says that no one, not one person is without Sin. I leave with a quote from my Lord and Master and I pray that some may see what I say and know it to be true.
“He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.”
Listen…I’m a christian…This lady forgot to read her Bible. If we were to argue the two opposing sides of this (not completely throwing religion out the window) then we would need to see what the Word really says about this.
It says in the book of Romans 3:23 (New International Version) “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” All sin is the same to God. Murder is the same as lying (however small). And lying is the same as homosexuality. The word also says that if a man has broken one part of the law it is as if he as broken the whole thing.
The fact is that EVERYONE has messed up. Everyone has fallen short of perfection…and THAT is why we need Jesus. He came and lived a perfect life and died a death that WE deserved…so that all we have to do is believe in him in our hearts and confess with out mouths that he is Lord and we will be with him in heaven forever.
Our salvation can NOT be taken away because we sin…That is the whole reason we need salvation. Being gay is no worse or any better than lying.
PLease…just know that this story shows a tainted picture of christianity…but people just see it and assume we are all this way…
my uncle is gay. i LOVE HIM TO DEATH! Nothing ever can or will change that. SO please just know this…God’s love is bigger than we could ever imagine and he loves us despite our imperfections.
I think we should draw a difference as well between fundamentalism and all other forms of religious expression.
The difference, for example, between evangelicals and fundys is that evangelicals read.
the problem is radicalism and bigotry.
A religion is sometimes a source of happiness and I would not deprive anyone of happiness. But it is a comfort appropriate for the weak, not for the strong. The great trouble with religion (ANY religion) is that a religionist, having accepted certain propositions by faith, cannot thereafter judge those propositions by evidence. One may bask at the warm fire of faith or choose to live in the bleak uncertainty of reason, but one cannot have both
Yes…Dave you couldn’t have put it any better. Being informed is simply the only way to win against radicalism and bigotry (of all forms)
Anonymous, homosexuality is indeed a dead end in evolution. But I hope you do realize that approximately 6% of the human population is completely straight. The others are bisexual to different extents, and another portion (greater than 6%) is completely homosexual. Yet humanity continues to overpopulate the planet. What’s wrong then? Let them be happy.
Wow. A friend sent me this, and I feel incredibly nauceous after reading this. It is people like Betty that scare me; so diluted by ignorance and their own “moral superiority”, that they let it cloud them into saying and acting as she did. She definitely should feel a ton of guilt, mostly because her son reached out to her, even though it was so hard for him to do so, and she not only turned her back on him, she dug his grave at the same time. What makes me most mad about this, is that there are tons of children out there that will experience this same scenario, and they may suffer the same fate as Bobby. No one deserves that, and it makes me sad that it happens under the guise of “morality”.
While I don’t hate Christianity, I totally agree with you; Fundamentalist Christians are dangerous, dangerous people. They force their extreme beliefs on anyone and everyone, and in many cases, cause nothing but hurt. Why can’t they see that this is what they are doing, instead of “spreading morality and love” as they claim to want to do? I feel so very sorry for Bobby, and hope that even though others will share his fate, that it will not be many. Wow.
good! one less gay person!
PERFECT!!!
Here’s the thing, “Ronald”: I don’t believe in your shltty mythology and the great Spook in the Sky. It’s drivel. It’s bullshlt. It’s unprovable, childish, inane, and insane.
Therefore, in the interest of normalcy and logic, which is the ONLY way to be fair to everyone, your idiocy should not be the #1 end-all of any subject.
As for the claim of ‘an evolutionary dead end’, so what? I didn’t know we were an endangered species…and if we are, the end is going to come from psycho religious nutbags, not a tiny percentage of gay people.
Our jails are not full of gays, they are full of violent straight men.
Who is the ‘evolutionary dead end’?
I just don’t understand why it is so important to everyone how I have an orgasm. I don’t give a damn about yours; please return the favor. And focus on your own damn family.
I am the Anonymous to which Nature’s Call refers.
I would be interested in seeing where you got your figures from but I must confess I have no working knowlege of the actual statistics. In either case this was not really about Homosexuality but about the skewed misconception if Christianity. It’s not my right to condemn some one nor is it really intelligent. The Bible implicitly states that the same measuring rod I use to judge others will be used to judge me. By judgement I refer to the judgement of condemnation not the judgement on whether or not it is wise/healthy to associate yourself with certain groups or actions. It is OK to go among them but you need to be among them as a representative of Christ and not of yourself.
Disclaimer: very long. It starts off sounding offtopic. And it also includes my own experiences with similar types of people like the mom and kid mentioned from my own life.
Personally I am religious. I have a relative who is gay. We belong to what most people would consider an extremely conservative Christian faith. I will not go into more specifics than that.
Reading the above you may have already established that I am wrong no matter what I say. If you have then you are probably just as bigoted as the people you criticize.
If you are still reading then I have a point to make beyond what I just said above. The relative that is gay sadly deals with alot of grief from relatives about her “condition” as it has been called. Personally I dont even see it. I am devout and treat her the same as anyone else. She has given me no reason to do otherwise. What many “devout” religionists do not get is that they have no place to judge. That is a fundamentally wrong thing to do. People make their choices and deal with consequences. It is like that in normal life too. You commit a crime and are caught, you and you alone are held accountable for your crime. (no this is not against the kid who killed himself, read on if you thought that is what I meant)
Anyway what that lady did to her kid was terrible. She did not see beyond herself and
that was wrong. The kid did not deserve that. sadly she took an approach of condemning the kid. In her way of thinking she will be held accountable for how she addressed that as well. The fact that she went on a public forum to talk about this means she knew what she was doing. This is just an attempt to have others vindicate her. IF you are religious then you will know that you will never escape the judgment of God (or the deity that applies in your belief if he or she judges)
My OPINION on this is that she knew what she was doing. When he went and killed himself and she posted, It was guilt that she was posting. She knows full well that she was the cause of his suicide. She cannot bring herself to admit it so she posts on forums and blogs to have other like minded people vindicate her. This is not a judgment, it is an analysis. I personally find it wrong she did that but I am biased for personal reasons as you will see reading on.
Back to my relative, my wife and I have become good friends with her and her partner. We invite them over every so often for game nights and such. To us they are just another set of friends. They understand our beliefs (my relative was of that belief herself) and are ok with it as well. The thing is it was addressed already by her family. She made her choice. It’s time to stop beating a dead horse. It is choices someone makes and that is what makes our lives worth living. The choices we make. That is why we are here. TO learn to make choices. And live by them for better or for worse. People have died for the right to choose and for the choices made. The ability and right to choose is what makes life rich and wonderful. The lack of choice makes it miserable. (hence prison where there is little choice)
At the risk of sounding political, our founding fathers (in the USA) completely understood the need for separation of church and state. We are slowly seeing religious bias and convictions being put back in. This is what has people so P.Oed. The fact that our ability to choose freely is being taken from us.
The child who died felt he had no choice. A parent that rejected him left him with no option. If she had CHOSEN to say “I love you” instead of you are going to hell, she would have saved his life. She needed to let him live with his choice. He may have later decided he didnt want to be gay. It does happen. But on the other hand she needed to accept him either way.
Sadly this type of attitude also hits closer to home on my part as my wife has a mom who has a very traditional sense of “womanhood”. My wife has no approval from her mother because she does not want to be a stay at home mom right now. My wife has had to go see a therapist because the disapproval has been so bad over the years (even in childhood) it has affected her adversely. When her mom says she is “proud” of her these days she really means she is proud of me in my career progress. it comes as a “I am proud of you” followed by MY career accomplishments. While the praise to me is nice it is bitter because it is not saying anything about my wife which I take offense to. Personally I prefer no praise at all if it is going to be that way. I personally have no need for peoples praise. I live my life the way I do and am happy with it and see no need for praise.
Anyway. This is a widespread problem that is generally being dealt with by the older generation. It is also a result of religious extremism. Sadly that transcends all faiths and even no faiths.
One day the woman will find herself accountable for what she has said and done here. I imagine in her heart she is already feeling the pain. What I said above is based on psychological analysis (which I am no expert but I know some of). So alot of that is mostly logic and reasonable deduction based on personal experience. My own life parts are based on personal experience and have some emotional connection to it for me.
Anyway if you were able to get past my first 3 paragraphs and gained some kind of insight or at least did not judge me for the first 3 paragraphs I wrote then congrats. You are more open minded than the fanatical religionists and religious bigots. This is my experience and my opinion. I am entitled to just as you are yours.
Clearly “Good!” has problems with his own dicklicking fantasies.
Why is it “good”, you piece of crap? All the gay people I’ve ever known have been kind, considerate, friendly, helpful. One of my best buds is gay, and he doesn’t litter, vandalize, steal things, or hurt people. I once saw him give a 20 to a homeless person on a corner. His partner is building an attachment on their home so his partner’s mother can move in when she gets too old to take care of herself.
They’re nothing but good. And here YOU come saying you’re glad they’re dead? Let me tell you something, you worthless piece of garbage, I’d rather see a thousand of them rescued from a burning building than even one azzhole like you.
And if you were here, I’d punch you in your self-loathing little weasel face.
The evolutionary dead end is something that won’t produce progression.
But as long as humans overpopulate this place – and even after they don’t – I won’t give a damn how people achieve sexual happiness. And if Christians preachify love, after all, they should learn to stick to it. What happened to that poor boy is just sacrilege, and I sure am glad it can’t happen to me.
Why would it lead to a shorter life (says the mum)? If she’s thinking about AIDS, she should know it’s not really restricted to gays. Besides, it was spreaded by some idiots who ate uncooked monkey meat. Ask them why they made the lives of millions an agony. Even then, protection makes it possible for almost anyone to enjoy what they desire.
Why does the mum say it’s all “filth” and stuff? One should learn not to judge another’s privacy. Even if my dad said that the food I prefer is more like icky goo, I wouldn’t care about it – but that’s my case, the boy had much less chance against pressure. Why press your child? After nurturing them for many years? People who demand that their relatives conform are illogical and a pain.
Just my 2 cents.
I DO feel sorry for the young man. I DON’T hate the mother, I only hate the ease whith which she allowed herself to be mislead!! Religion, be it fundementalist or not, is a billion-dollar industry, and a competitive one. There is NO SUCH THING AS BRAINWASHING. No one sells you a crock of shit without your permission. You can’t wash what ain’t there!! Don’t believe anything without some solid evidence, the scientific process works, EVERY TIME!
Kep in mind that most of what we refer to today as the Bible was never written down until after 700ad. Placing it 700+ years after the events of the new testimate, and thousands of years after the old testimate. ANYTHING will get distorted in that length of time!
What did Jeasus really teach us? He taught that ALL MEN are his creatures, and that it is WRONG to completely exclude someone just because they are a sinner!!
He went so much easier on the prostitutes than he did on the scribes and pharosees, who corrupted and politisized the church!! Don’t you think this would affect his feelings about the modern church, which is as politiacl as anything that comes out of Capitol Hill?
A person raised in that environment, let’s face it, would have to distance himself from a family like that to establish any self-esteem.
Mark Smith,
Of course you care or you would not have replied. My concern yet again is more to do with the perception of Christianity and not Homosexuality. Your relationship with God or lack thereof is between you and Him. Any believers job is to model Christlike behavior for others and to try to get the message out to others about Gods love and his requirements. In the end whether you believe in him or not is irrelevant, as he very truly believes in us. It is by His will that we draw breath but he has given us the ability to deny his will if we so choose. Just like a child that dis-obeys their parent, we will all be subject to His Judgment. Some will be judged and forgiven because they acknowledged their sins and have maintained a relationship with Christ, others will not. This is the harsh reality that many people find abhorrent, it is also the ONLY way. I don’t say this, my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ does. Some say that following Christ is for the weak and they’re right. I am weak and I need Christ, we all do. We are all weak and without Christ in our lives we will not see the Father. I don’t know if being gay will keep you from Heaven but I suspect that it would be treated just like any other sin. What does God say about Sin? You know or at least have heard some of it, the questions is whether you use your free will to heed his words or follow your own path. We all have that choice to make nearly every second of our lives. You make yours and I’ll make mine and both will be Judged by His rod. In the end thats what really matters.
And
Duane, no offense but you need to go and re-read the story at the top, I’ll quote it here for you as well.
“I sat him down and told him that I loved him and that God loved him, but that his salvation was in danger if he did not resist his unnatural tempations. I told him how being gay would mean he would live a shorter life, and that if he couldnt change his orientation he could be celibate like most the ex-gays are.”
This is not hatred but concern for her sons’ life and soul. Unfortunately we as Humans take being wrong very poorly (myself included). What the boy missed was that his mother loved him but didn’t approve of his inclination. If she truly didn’t care she wouldn’t have said anything at all in light of what she and he undoubtedly knew.
Wow, just wow… I feel so sorry for that kid. I wish there was something I could have done for him. I have an awfully hard time feeling bad for his mother… but I suppose, in the end, I can understand that she did what she did out of ignorance.
I suppose I should thank you for introducing me to FSTDS, though. Funny stuff…
We sure have an enormous indifference of opinions especially when it comes to the homosexual issue. Lets put it frankly shall we. To the one who needs proof that homosexuality is forbidden. God mentions that it is obscene, but it makes no difference whether anything can be proven for you, its obvious with your attitude and reluctant knowledge you will never understand or gain accurate knowledge of the truth until you change your personality. Learn to interpet correctly then come back with remarks of reasoning rather than submission.
To the one who wants to know why God allows homosexuality to exist is irrelavent to his allowing anything contrary to his purpose to exist. Plainly saying, he doesn’t allow any evil to exist among mankind. Through inherited sin, it is the error of man and his error alone.
To the self confessed Christians who have assured themselves a place in heaven, wait until the day of the Great Tribulation begins and I’m sorry to say, all of you will receive a rude awakening.
We are living in the time of the end where the true God, the true faith and all the indifferences concerning the scriptures will be exposed. Its also going to be a great time of wailing and nashing of teeth, because all the ungodly will also be revealed and they are a great number.
I once read that there may be anywhere from 12,000 to 20,000 American minors going through living hell because they come out as gay to their fundamentalist chistian parents!
Some of these religious monsters send their children to Christian rehabilitation centers. Some of these so called Christian mental health centers use shock theapy and other horrific quack therapies to try and convert perfectly healthy gay children into straight ones!
Torture and cruelty are common at many of these facillities!
In some states pets are more protected from creulty than are these poor gay children of fundamentalist christian parents!
For some children trapped in such atrocious situations, suicide begins to look like an attractive way out!
I feel sick because a boy committed suicide. I feel sicker when I hear about nonsense such as Project Exodus and other so called therapies to change people from gay to staight!
I must say that when I first read the lady’s quoted letter I thought for sure it was contrived; some schemester trying to give Christianity a bad name by pretending to be some dubious Christian that had no idea what she’d done wrong. I was about to call the letter out as bullshit because her statement sounds so rediculous. Then I followed the link to the Christian forums:
http://www.freejesus.net/home/viewtopic.php?p=43639#43639
Oh my lord! It suddenly became obvious, based on the responses of others to her post on freejesus.net, that not only does her statement look legit, there is a whole slew of people that think just like she does! They actually supported her decision and said she was right!
I guess you gotta have faith, blind faith.
This is why you don’t let idiots be parents.
Even though fundamentalist Christian parents of these poor gay children as you speak of are remotely responsible for their children’s actions, its not just their factors that are at fault, far from it. Society plays a major role also, just as well as religion.
While its fact that God himself calls homosexuality obscene, it would stand to reason that he does not approve of the union. Where-as society has allowed permissiveness sexuality in all forms contrary to what is written in scriptures. Besides religions carrying indifferences to what is also written in God’s word and some religions actually honouring the homosexual union along with a childs own conscientiousness, its no wonder children who find themselves harbouring homosexual desires are caught in an emotional turmoil.
With all the sound advice out there, I’m surprised no one thought to consult the only person who can initiate help for these wrong desires. That is Jehovah God. Has anyone ever thought to ask him, rather than take it on their own accord. It seems unlikely that any parent, any child has. Its much easier to give into the sin and try to doctor up their conscience to accept it as normal.
Why not ask God for help, if nothing happens, change your faith until you find the correct one. If you do not wish to put forth the effort to search for him, then you probably will give way to the sin, thereby exposing yourself to the consequences that come with it.
Dumbfounded,
Isn’t that what Faith is? Careful your faith is showing right now….. You practice faith every day of your life. Faith that you’ll wake from sleep, faith that the Sun won’t explode etc… Not all Christians condemn, thats not our right, we are far too fallible when it comes to ourselves much less other people and God knows this, why else do you think that he cautions us about it? It is easy to dismiss the words I and others have said because it causes conflict with our own greedy selfish natures, and rubs our inflated opinions of ourselves the wrong way. I point at believers and none believers when I these things, myself included. I do not intend to single out any one group or Sin because in Gods eyes we are the SAME and the Sin is the same. Kill a billion people or steal a pack of gum, it makes no difference in Gods eyes wrong is wrong. The only difference is Christ.
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I don’t believe it…nope! She only has 9 posts at that site, and after reading more of that thread…I think she’s just an attention monger.
It would be different if she had a long standing history at that site where people knew her sort of…but after just 9 posts she’s taking time out from grieving to post that about her son to a bunch of strangers?
Nah…I still don’t believe it.
“But even more than that, I hate fundamentalist Christianity”
Well that’s very intolerant of you.
@matt, just curious Matt, but did you happen to think about the logistics of your statement? You say that its wrong to force your opinion on someone else, yet that is just what your doing with that statement.
You must not be reading very closely; some of the most hateful and offensive comments are coming from anti-gay Christians:
excellent post !
I still fail to see in your quoted statements where anyone actually said “I hate gays.”. If ANYONE commits suicide, they deserve what they get. It’s called free will. Everyone has it. He obviously felt what he was doing was wrong, or he would not have acted the way he did, so I agree that if you know you are in the wrong in something you are doing, you SHOULD feel ashamed. All of this is very logical to me. Am I the only sane person here?
The last 3 comments didn’t exactly say they hated homo’s, but they were insulting to say the least. People get burnt out on shit like this because it happens so often and everyone is up in arms fighting for something that is all a waste of time. It all boils down to a matter of personal preference. You’ll have your opinion and I’ll have mine. They’ll always be different, so what is the sense in arguing about who is wrong or who is right. Obviously if you’ve argued to this point about something you don’t even believe in (Christianity – what’s right and wrong) then maybe this discussion is over and it should be left at “personal preference”.
Seems to me teh mother was pretty understanding. She doesn’t know how to deal with people in severe emotional crisis but she was very understanding.
Basically she said being gay is bad but not so bad as long as you don’t have sex. the kid was young enough that even a straight kid would be told not to have sex at that point.
The kid came out with a statement completely against all of her moral beliefs and she didn;t disown him. She came out with concern for him and his well being along with a solution that would allow him to stay gay.
Noe unfortunataly this is EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE way to deal with someone who is mentally disturbed. Pleanty of people come out and are condemed for it and don’t kill themselves. The kid obviousally had other issues bigger than being a repressed homosexual.
The fact that this poor person with a mental disorder happened to be gay and his mother happened to be a fundimentalist Christian is irreveleant to the core problem.
You people make me sick. So, it’s the mothers fault because she has morals? Fuck you all.
Read “Letter to a Christian Nation” by Sam Harris. It points out many of the logical fallacies that make Christianity more of an ignroant empire than a religion, forcing itself on others and making them change. Christians hate people who or not Christian, and for all their talk of sinning, it’s just Wrath.
Jesus Christ would have loved this boy, he would not have made him feel bad for being a homosexual, a thing that CANNOT be changed. It is NATURAL in the course of genetics.
WWJD? He would’ve loved the boy and accepted him — this woman did not. By Christian standards, she is a bad person.
Firtly, I would like to reply to the person blaming all those deaths on atheism. It was not Atheism that killed those people, like you said earlier in your post, it was the person doing the killing. Just like Chritianity didn’t kill that kid. Ignorance is bliss isn’t it? And as far as the kid, thank you Betty. One Fag down, the rest to go.
Kornsthebest5544 is my AIM
Send me a message sometime
“It caused his death — if there was no Christianity, he would still be alive”
I agree with you 100% here mate!
It’s about time we rid the world of organized religion. I don’t mind if people still believe in God, Heaven, Hell etc… but strip all the religions of their power.
Christianity, Judaism, Islam and all the major religions are nothing more than “accepted” cults. They drill their own agenda into the minds of their followers (most times, children).
Hopefully the predictions of current intellectuals that religion will be phased out in 25 years time will come true. Though sadly it is too late for the above-mentioned boy.
This truly sickens me. That such a large percentage of the population believe in and support an organization that preaches hatred and inequality is completely unfathomable; they teach about the goodness of God, yet they seek to spread discrimination.
Religion turns the best people to evil. I hate that it creates ignorance under a guise of goodness.
Ok, all you religion haters. Now I totally agree that the mother over stepped the mark and the right thing to do is support you’re child through what you feel is good or bad. Why does everyone blame religion and call it over when one lives their life in accordance to some beliefs, I think more and more people in the western world should try and get some morals.
I honestly don’t think being gay should be cool or flashed all over the telly it turns me sick and is totally unnatural. Time and time again people blame religion for all the bad things in the world, even though if everyone had no beliefs or morals we’d have GAYS RAISING CHILDREN, SINGLE TEENAGE MOTHERS and NO CHRISTMAS just to start.
For goodness sake stop blaming Religion for all the worlds problems. Religion only promotes peace and doing the right thing for each other.
What makes me sick is not the Christians but non-Christians. Even without God you can’t justify Homosexuality. Without God, the only belief humans would have to keep them going after they die is through their offspring. Well you can’t have f….ng offspring without the male and female. Without God, rules are made by the dominate Male/Males in the group (think women rights would have happen without Christianity – think again). Physical strength and violence would be center point and laws would not be fair. Sex would be guilt free and easier to obtained (whether by brutal force or consent). Age would be less of a concern and thus humans would start mating at a earlier age and multiple partners would be tolerated. In-breeding would be more rampant and accepted. After all who defined that mating with your sister is wrong – Christianity. Homosexuality has never been widely accepted by Believers or Non-Believers and thus has always been a minority. Fear of death would probably keep Homosexuals from “coming out of the closet”, thus numbers would not be as high as today. Sure Religions fight among themselves but where do non-Christians get the idea that life would be peachy king today without Christianity. Its not Religion that causes WAR its the stupidity of Man. Religion tries to better the people around them and promises an eternal reward for it. History shows that mankind has fought each other no matter what religion or non-religion they have. Fighting is Mankind’s fault. Suicide is the Individual’s fault. Religion isn’t the cause of War – Mankind is the cause of War.
Yea, yea, then you get those really bright (sarcasm) Sympathizers that try to point to the animal world as proof that Homosexuality is natural. WTF….. who said that the disease of Homosexuality is limited to just man. Animals can suffer from the same diseases as man. Guess what? While it may be possible to find animals that suffer from this horrible disease. It is in no way as rampant as it is among the Human Population. We are the largest group of mammals suffering from this disease. Difference is we use our keen intellect to justify it. How Pathetic?
Non-Christians in the comments condemn her for her beliefs but are hypocrites themselves by forcing their beliefs on her. She has just as much right to believe in a God, in morality, a define sense of good and evil as any non-Christians in this group belief. There is probably more evidence to support that God exist than there is to support that homosexuality is natural. It’s cracks me up that people are quick to judge a chemically imbalance killer as sick but when some scientists show that homosexuality could be trigger by hormone imbalance or hormonal changes it is suddenly naturally. O.k. , let’s stop treating all people of all hormone imbalances because hey – it’s natural. All the crazies, nut cases, bi-polar, or any other hormone or chemical imbalance that I guarantee some of these non-Christians agree are sicknesses and diseases. No, these non-Christians are hypocrites. They judge others as badly as they claim she was judging her son. Not what I got out of it her post. Looks like she was trying to help her son with what she believed is wrong and did it in a way she thought is right (seemed pretty non-violent, non aggressive approach to me). When none of the things she did worked she tried reach out to others. You non-Christians are doing what you thought is right and hey that’s o.k. too but the difference was she wasn’t spreading hate around she just doing what she thought is right. What gives you non-Christians any more right than the Christians to dictate right and wrong. Most of the comments here were hateful toward her. To Disagree with someone is not hate and is o.k. It is o.k. to voice your opinion that you think Homosexuality is right but don’t hate her for her decision. Her Son had choices too. He could have just said f….k you and at 18 went off his merry way as a Homosexual. Kids should abstain from sex regardless whether they are Homosexual or Heterosexual anyway. I’m assuming the kid is under 18 or is still in H.S. or lower. If not and he is older then wtf – he don’t need his mamma’s blessing. Come on, if a heterosexual teen decides not to wait the first thing to come out and say “hey Mom or Dad I’m doing and doing it hard”. We know there are plenty of teens not abstaining from Sex and I can bet there are a lot that haven’t ” come out of the closet” and profess their sexual activity to their parents (which if they were any decent parent would not approve off until out of high school and on their own). He approach his mother, found out she didn’t agree with him and she tried to get him some help. When he realize the major clues that his mother was not going to change her belief he should have respected that and not try to force her to change. Instead he tried to impose his beliefs on her just like she was supposedly doing to him but when it failed he killed himself. If Christianity doesn’t believe in being gay he should have denounced Christianity and said I don’t believe that mom and I am gay. He should have stood his ground and not wasted his mothers money by attending or participating in the sessions. He should have FOUGHT for his belief. Instead he took the easy way out – Death. His fault, His burden, and now people that LOVED him but have disagreed with him have to suffer because of it. Who knows, in time, maybe his mother might have at least accepted his choices on her OWN time but hey we won’t know because he’s dead…………
How Pitiful?
Sure you can. They’re born like that, end of story.
I don’t believe in God like in the bible but am spiritual in that I like to search for answers that are not available in todays science. Cutting edge science suggests we are all just energy, and the material is really only condensed energy. Religion is for weak spirited. infantile-like people who don’t want to accept reality and logic.
What is pitiful is that christians believe in a magic invisible man in the sky whom they cant see but ‘know’ exists. On top of that Homosexuals dont need ‘help’ its a descision not a disease. If christians didnt band together like a bunch of lemmings that do whatever their church demands id have a little less disdain for them. Whats so hard about reading the bible(rediculous, and violence condoing as it is) on your own and not having someone else dictate what to believe.
//the flying spahgetti monster is god
Dragonopolis you are being stupid and illogical. Homosexuals don’t choose their sexual orientation. Did you choose to be a hetro?
“Sure you can. They’re born like that, end of story. ”
Born like what???
Excuse me??
Okay Professor… You get one half baked idea in your head, a huge ironically closed-minded community from Digg, and a pithy opinionated blog and this is what happens.
End of story, you say? Since when did YOU, a juvenile blogger, become THE definitive source on fags and birth?
You sir are a god of minuscule things.
Keep preachin’ your ironically intolerant Tolerance so you can go to bed feeling like you’re changing the world.
Vlad homosexuality is not a decision. Where do you get your facts from?
Wow. Nothing more than blabbering going on in here now. There are no “FACTS” about this topic. My OPINION is that it’s something, just as everything in life is….A CHOICE. You don’t have to be attracted to men if you choose not to be. You aren’t born like that. Like it’s already been said earlier, if it is natural, then why can’t they reproduce? It is NOT natural, but it is a choice. They can live like that if they want.
Continue the mindless blabbering if you must…
Honestly, I couldn’t read through all 170+ replies to this. I just want to sum up what I think and join the discussion from here:
Disclaimer: I’m a Catholic
1) The mother did a bad job. Your job as a parent is to raise your child to adulthood first and foremost. Her kid didn’t make it there because of her actions. Your second job is to raise them so they are well-adjusted and love themselves because that will allow them to love others. That’s another place she screwed up. If he cannot accept himself and love himself, how is he supposed to be even a substandard Christian? You can’t give something you don’t have.
2) To me, a sin is a sin is a sin. Having gay sex is like lying. There are times when I lie. There are times when other people have gay sex. Why is there no heat on me from the fundamentalists (for lying, being Catholic is another story with them) but the gays have all the attention focused on them? There’s nothing in the Bible that sets it apart from other sins. We’re all sinners. Jesus himself said in the same measure you judge, so shall you be judged yourself. I try to be as leniant as possible of most people I come across because if I’m going to be judged with my own ruler, I’d prefer God be as leniant with me as possible.
3) The atheists on this thread that have expressed extreme views like “This is why I hate Christianity” have done two things:
a) They have established a religion against religion so, congratulations, you’re part of the family of nutcases now. How does it feel?
b) They’ve put most of the Christians into defense mode and made them want to dig in their heels and defend themselves. If you want to take that tact, that’s cool, but we outnumber you in every country but China and they have atheism by fiat. If you want flat out conflict, I suspect the troglodytes that you hate will overcome you.
Sane – What if you woke up tomorrow and the only thing you got hard to was males? There’s a physical attraction component to being homosexual. You don’t make rational choices, free will choices, when it comes to physiological responses. So why don’t you explain to me how it is a man can have an erection by looking at another man and that’s his choice? I’ll admit that I’m a little uncomfortable with homosexuality because I don’t totally understand it, but it’s part of our world and needs to be intermingled humanely. Besides, what do you have to lose? Their sins go on their heads and your’s go on your’s.
Just because it’s your OPINION doesn’t make it true. It just makes you IGNORANT. How do you know they weren’t born like that? How can you choose to be something you aren’t? Sure they can stop same sex relations but that does not change the fact they’re still attracted to the same sex. How would you feel if some asked YOU to change your sexual preference? Can you see the immense stupidity in your statements?
Your floating in a DREAMLAND mate. WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE. Now heres a REAL choice you can make; go and live in your own self created hell with your demented God, or start changing our world for the better so we can have some damn REAL peace for once in our lifetime. You blind preachers are inhumane degenerates and cast a shadow of shame across humanity. Hang your heads in disgrace.
A man can have an erection from watching 2 dogs have sex. What the fuck are you trying to say? People have no self control? I don’t just look at some woman and get a hard on. I did maybe when I was hitting puberty, which is normal. I’m not seeing the relevance in your post.
Allah…Dipshit – Without Judeo-Christian beliefs, the weak wouldn’t be here and they would be without any rights. Think of Rome pre-Christianity: it was pretty Darwinian. I think it’s always interesting how critics of Christianity develop myopathy when calling for its mass death and destruction by overlooking the good things that it has brought the world. (And, yes, I’ll wait for one of the smartasses to ask “Oh yeah, what’s your fucking religion brought us?)
Dude, I haven’t preached. I’ve stated SEVERAL times that this is my opinion. It’s alot different, I have 2 kids…meaning I reproduced with my wife…naturally. Homo’s can not do that. Therefore, in my opinion, it is unnatural. It’s all very logical to me.
You are starting the insults here brother. Calling my god “demented” and telling me I am a “blind preacher”? Have I once insulted you? Negative. Step back, and take a look at what I have posted, and what you have. Who is the “blind preacher” now? Looks to me like you are preaching your opinion just like anyone else, except, you are more persistent in your opinion as fact, more than any evangelist or preacher of Christianity I have EVER seen. All without the slightest bit of finesse or courtesy mind you.
People like THIS are the reason that we never develop any common ground. Try to look at the posts here objectively and unbiased. As I have stated once before, there are no facts in this…just opinions. The only things I have stated as facts, are well….facts. They can’t reproduce…which by human nature, makes the homosexual relationship unnatural. Very simple.
Sane – I’m asking what you’d do because your argument that it’s a choice really doesn’t hold water because why would anyone choose all the social stigmas associated with being gay if they weren’t legitimately physically attracted to the same sex? The point: things beyond free will compel people to do things.
My opinion of changing the world for the better would be all people developing morals and guidelines for an ethical life, and abiding by it. Meaning, the laws that were set in place from the 10 commandments…abide by them. Would you ever steal something from someone? Kill anyone? These are things that we are taught not to do. Times have changed, and with that, people try to change the morals of society, which in turn, weakens it and strips away discipline and strength.
Sane – Their thinking goes back to the certainty of the 19th and early 20th centuries that anything can be logically understood or measured. They believe that since they are “rational” that you, I and our Christian brethren must be nuts. Our religion has lasted 2,007 years and their’s has been around since Nietsche declared “God is dead.” I’ll take our track record over their’s any day of the week and twice on Sunday, since that is our holy day and all.
Scott, if I am sitting in a new dodge viper with the keys in the ignition with nobody around and there is some way I knew I wouldn’t get caught. It’s still wrong. How would I restrain myself? Discipline and morals. I’d know it’s morally wrong to do it, so I wouldn’t do it. It’s the same scenario. That’s like saying that you had sex with a woman because the urge was there…what about your wife? It’s all about discipline.
My problem is people trying to justify it by saying it’s natural. Hormonal imbalances and saying that you feel attracted just isn’t enough for me to believe it’s natural. If it were natural, then they would be able to reproduce. It’s that simple to me.
It is not a choice, it’s hardwired psychologically. Self control is not the issue, the issue is people like you who feel anyone different than yourself is inferior.
Hmmm… I just viewed all the posts of the supposed “mother.”
And I’d be willing to bet money it’s no mother at all, but a troll with an agenda. And not a very good troll. But don’t take my word for it. Check “Betty’s” profile and read all “her” posts. It seems to me the whole thing is a sham, and designed to get exactly the response it got.
Look at her original thread, then the follow-up thread posted half a month later. Some choice quotes from the original thread:
“I know about those programs. My son said that they have a .01 success rate and that most people dont change from gay to straight; they’re either gays who become celibate or bisexuals who just go out with the opposite gender. He says he wants to fall in love and those programs would try making him celibate.”
What a surprisingly intelligent and well informed son. Strange, too, that this supposedly religious fundie mother listened to his advice and believed it. More choice quotes from the original thread follow:
“I’ve heard stuff about clients going there and becoming depressed after they couldnt change, and then killing themselves. I dont want that to happen to my son.
”
“Yes, but the gays go to NARTH to change, and when they discover they cant change they become depressed and kill themselves. I’ve heard that gay teens are more likely to kill themselves and I dont want to add my son to those statistics. At first I thought I knew what I thought, but now Im so confused.
”
Yes, I’m sure the suicide rate of gay kids is just off the map. Strange that she put such an emphasis on the suicide thing in her first thread. From the original thread, again:
”
But how do I know you and your sources arent biased as well?
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_prof.htm
I was searching for more info like you said and this site said that all the major professional mental-health organizations say that being gay is unchangable.”
Ummm… Betty, are you a crazy religious fundie, or a well educated atheist? If you’re really a crazy fundie, why are you reading liberal propaganda that clearly promotes the homosexual agenda™. After all, you don’t like immoral psychologists, why would you listen to and believe the voice of reason on a secular website? Whose side are you on? And from the second and final thread:
“But wasnt it my fault for not accepting him?
”
“He had been upset with me because I told him that being gay was wrong.”
“But if I had been nicer and said I didnt mind, he probably wouldnt have killed himself.
”
I’m afraid you’re confusing me, Betty. You’re practically reciting that vile homosexual propaganda™! From an enlightened woman like you, I’d expect some gems of wisdom more like this quote from the admin of that forum:
“How did you “not accept” your son? Don’t buy into the hateful and totally erroneous propaganda coming from the gay activists who blame Christians for every problem in the gay community and every gay teen suicide. This is simply a fallacious argument designed to make parents of gay teens fearful of what a few gay teens do.”
My guess is that “Betty” tried to provoke a sympathetic reaction from the fundies on that board with the made up story about a kid killing himself. I agree with the basic concept that “Betty” is trying to get across; fundie parents should listen to reason a bit more, and be more tolerant with their kids. But Betty unwittingly proves just how dense fundies can be. Look at the second thread, where “her” son dies. There is sympathy for her, but they unanimously agree that she did the “right” thing by insisting that homosexuality is a sin, and trying to get him to change. According to them, it’s the kids fault. Regardless of “Betty’s” good intentions, I don’t like being lied to. And if this really is fake, it’s pretty fucking stupid that it got the widespread coverage and outpouring of emotion that it did.
Anyway, “Betty” just doesn’t add up. A poster signs up, posts this thread, and disappears for half a month. Shows up and says, “omg, my son died. It’s my fault, because I was an intolerant b!tch. All us religious people should be more tolerant and less ignorant.” After the thread is finished, “Betty” promptly disappears, never to be seen again.
The story very well may be fake — researching that was a bit beyond the scope of my blog post — but the “homosexual agenda” is most definitely an invention of the right. It isn’t a choice, it isn’t immoral, and if it weren’t for fundamentalist religion, the US might have accepted it, like many other first world countries have.
hope she doesnt have any other kids
I have seen no reference in the bible against homosexuality. Why are the major religions against it? If someone wants to be gay, let them, and let natural selection take its course.
Actually both Leviticus and Paul say homosexuality is a sin. But Paul gives it no special status and it is listed with numerous other sins. Leviticus actually says it’s an abomination but, honestly, that could be a mistranslation IMO.
Even though I’m non-religious I still have morals so my apologies if I put across too much anger and negativity. Sometimes I just like to jolt people to think independently, but I realize I could be more tactful .
Atheists can sometimes be equally frustrating. Religious people believe in religion, and atheists often blindly believe in science from the 1900′s and suffer from a “what you see is what you get” mantality.
Homosexuality may be unnatural in that it doesn’t serve the purpose of reproduction, but I like to see it as a “naturally unnatural phenomena”. Maybe it’s a symptom of the massive overpopulation our planet suffers. While fundamentalists and economists scream for more babies to be borne the world in front of us is dying. Look at nature, how does it sustain itself so impeccably? We can learn a lot from our mother Earth and explore the CREATION that made this all possible.
There’s a lot we don’t know, but one thing I can be certain of is that if there really is a Christian god I certainly don’t want to live in his idea of heaven.
Though the outcome was in the extreme,utmost,we can’t overlook the fact the boy was having serious problems that he’d had hoped would be comforted & understood by the one he loved,his “mother”. I guess she’ll be second guessing what she said or did’nt say till the end of time,talk about hell. The thing of it is we all have free will. I’m not going to judge this woman cause I’ve not the right. One thing we all can do is make sure we tell our kids we love them,maybe that’ll make a difference…..
I second that.
http://www.freejesus.net/home/viewtopic.php?p=43639#43639
This link gave me a headache, a serious one. Honestly, how can people be that thick? With every passing minute I’m ever more glad I have normal parents, not blatant fools like found on that forum. Not only am I bisexual, but a zoophile also. And my mum knows.
I never had a reason to kill myself. If there’s ever any reason to pray for, it’s normal parents and common sense.
Scott: Where does Paul say homosexuality is a sin?. A hint for you, “natural behavior” doesn’t always mean “biologically natural”.
All men should be brother but on the other hand slavery is acceptable? You approve slavery? Wifes are husbands property?
If you say that bible condemns homosexuality it’s your own and modern interpretation of bible, not necessarily what was meant when it was written. Until you fully understand ancient Greek and social climate of that era, I take your “Paul said homos are sinners” as grain of salt or fart in the wind if you will.
But I’m sure that not me or anyone else can make you think with your own brains.
Wow, this blog is amazing.
The responses from most people indicate a huge amount of anguish and distress over this issue.
I see where each and every one of you is coming from.
I hope this will help:
1) This mom seems very naive, lacking a basic understanding of her role and of a boy’s needs.
2) Her fear is real, it is not a fake robotic response, she is truly scared for her son – doesn’t want him to go to Hell.
3) The responses on this blog (every one I’ve read) is equally in lack of basic understanding of a boy’s needs.
Let me express what I think the christian faith involves and is made up of, I’ll start with some basic principles and then combine them to show you a greater picture of where this mom is coming from:
1) ‘True’ Christians believe that God is a God to be afraid of, like a peasant would be afraid of his King (if the peasant disobeys their King, they can be killed).
2) ‘True’ Christians believe that they CANT go to Heaven by themselves (good works won’t get them to heaven).
3) ‘True’ Christians believe that (as stated in the bible), Jesus Christ (who is actually a historical figure) came to save (by dying on the cross) HIS people (not everyone – a lot simpler than that) and that the only way to get to heaven was through Him (believing on Him and acknowledging that they rely on Him completely). That is why you hear of Jesus referred to as the ‘Saviour’.
4) ‘True’ Christians believe that Jesus Christ (as stated in the bible) came to save his elect people. This is a complex doctrine, but basically, God has already chosen (before time existed) a group of people to save (obviously in the billions throughout time). This means God does not love EVERYONE, which is a common misconception in modern ‘Christian’ societies.
4) ‘True’ Christians believe that God loves them ‘unconditionally’, basically, the people that God has chosen (His ‘elect’ people) are loved by Him, no matter what happens. For example, someone could have been a rapist, a murderer, a pedophile or a homosexual – but at the end of their lives were ‘broken’ by what they had done and ‘repented of their sin’ and ‘acknowleged their dependance’ on their ‘Saviour’ to be saved. This person would have been dearly loved by God throughout time (even though God would have been ‘justly’ angry with their sin).
This is an incredibly abridged version of the MOST BASIC principles of the bible, and I have missed out some important doctrines and principles that may help – but you need to chase up on that if you want to know, it would take waaaay to long to try and explain just the smallest part of it.
When you combine all these principles (some not explained), this is how I would react to my son in the same situation:
I would tell him that although he could enjoy the pleasures of sin for a time (while he was alive), that in the end it would all catch up with him. In the end God would make him accountable for the way he conducted himself while he was on earth.
I would then tell my son that, in light of this, unless he repented and asked for forgivness then his King would send him down to the dungeon ‘where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth’.
The fear I would feel for my son, none of you could describe it.
I feel deeply for this woman, and pray for her – not only for the Comforter to help her but also that God would lead her to a greater understanding of Himself.
I also feel an incredible anguish for the son. Although he may have been a nice kid, he’s gone to Hell – noone can describe what he will suffer.
So I put it to you: Research T.U.L.I.P and make a move while you are alive guys, God is real, so is his anger, so is his love.
Thanks for reading this,
Obmas
another thought:
If God created us to honor Him (as described in the bible) then we have no right to disobey him. Just like you wouldn’t let your clay model kill your only son and then seek in every way to contradict your rules.
So either you are right and I am wrong, or its the other way around. I have personally been shown that I’m right about at least this.
Hope this helps someone.
Nietzsche is right, God won’t help any more, we killed him/her.
Before you argue that “he created Adam first”, which I thoroughly doubt (I mean the creation itself), let me enlighten some of you that every mammal develops as a female first (partially a reason why men have nipples, etc. – or for example, your ballbag (assuming you have one) forms from the outer lips healing together and the head of the penis is nothing other than the clit, just emerged).
In the light of this, some Christians may reconsider things about Adam and Eve. Adam could’ve been a rib of Eve for all I care.
And I don’t like it when a religion is intrusive and offends freedom which every mammal deserves. You have the freedom to do as you please, as long as your actions don’t work against someone else’s freedom. And considering that orientation may very well be due to genetics, parents don’t have a damn say about the issue and I’d be pretty rude at mines if they offended me.
Learn to read the Bible:
“Scott: Where does Paul say homosexuality is a sin?. A hint for you, “natural behavior” doesn’t always mean “biologically natural”.”
I have a New International Version Bible which, generally unless you are talking to an unobjective Christian, is recognized as the most accurate of the translations. Paul says in 1 Corinthians 6:9 (which is ironic in and of itself) “Neither the sexually immoral nor idolators nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the Kingdom of God.”
“All men should be brother but on the other hand slavery is acceptable? You approve slavery? Wifes are husbands property?”
I feel that Christ’s sacrifice wiped away the codes of the Old Testament, the 10 Commandments if you will, and replaced them with two: love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul and all your spirit and love your neighbor as you love yourself. I have paraphrased the two commandments Jesus has given… just wanted to point that out up front since I can see you have a propensity for accusing your debate opponents of not knowing their material.
“If you say that bible condemns homosexuality it’s your own and modern interpretation of bible, not necessarily what was meant when it was written. Until you fully understand ancient Greek and social climate of that era, I take your “Paul said homos are sinners” as grain of salt or fart in the wind if you will.”
Perhaps the wind is blowing in your direction and you are inhaling the noxious gases from my anus since you not only predicated your name on the assumption that I did not know my own religion but did so on the assumption you knew which verse I was specifying. Perhaps if you knew your Bible better you’d have known which quote I was using since I pointed out that homosexuality is one sin among many that Paul names. I’ve done some of the sins that he named so I’m no better than a homosexual and I don’t pretend to be. However, if you think you will waltz in here and treat me like an ignorant fundamentalist that actually hasn’t studied the religious texts, theology and philosophy behind my religion then you will be extremely surprised and unprepared for the responses you receive.
“But I’m sure that not me or anyone else can make you think with your own brains.”
Oooh, another pompous quote. You have any more of those in your bag of goodies for me? Or are you fresh out since nearly your entire argument was predicated on a false assumption?
Obmas – Is God truly just if we can make a reasonable argument that to send someone to Hell for X, Y or Z is unjust? On that same note, where do you put the people that lived before Christ’s time? It’s clearly unjust to send them to Hell because they never had the chance to accept Christ as their Savior.
Just some questions I had when reading through your post.
Whether the story is true or not in this case doesn’t matter.
The fact is this happens every day in America.
Something like 35 percent of all teen suicides are because of sexual orientation, and I bet you the majority of those kids were not accepted by their parents, families and communities at the time in their life when they need all of that support the most.
It is sad there are so many hateful people who think they should have the right to judge others based on sexual orientation. Don’t we have bigger worries?
But I know that there are many parents out there who hate the fact that their son or daughter is gay or lesbian, and the ones who deal with it in a dignified, understanding and loving way towards their child, are the heroes in my book.
phizzpop
http://www.monkeytypesthebible.com
http://www.indierockcafe.com
Scott:
Your questions make sense, thats mainly my fault – I haven’t explained the HALF of the intertwined doctrines and principles that would explain those questions.
The reasoning behind your first question is like this (I remind you that this is only a scratch on the surface):
Is a potter truly just if he makes some pots only to break them again? Its His clay after all isn’t it? ‘True’ Christians believe that God created everything; the earth, universe, time, this whole dimension, us.
Another way to say it (from our perspective): the clay has no right to say to the potter, “Why did you make me like this?”.
Again, I would point you to solid literature to see for yourself (I’d start with the KJV).
As for your second question, thats one I have not (sadly) given much thought to – I’ll explain it as best I can:
There is a reason for the Bible having an Old Testament and a New Testament. The ‘Testament’ is the ‘Covenant’ – the legal agreement between God and man.
The Old Testament was ‘Types and Shadows’. The people in the Old Testament pointing forward to Christ (we in the New Testament point BACK to Christ and what he has done). That is why there was the sacrifice of lambs – it was a type or shadow (a picture if you like) of what Christ was going to do for them (Christ was likened to an innocent lamb, killed by his own creation).
Another way to say it is: It is the same Legal Agreement (Old and New) given under two dispensations (dispensation: A specific arrangement or system by which something is dispensed). What is dispensed? Research T.U.L.I.P again, that explains it.
So basically, the people in the Old Testament had to follow the rules of their dispensation (the way in which they honored God).
I do not profess to explain any of this in a fully comprehensible manner, so I would encourage you to look into it further. Start with KJV and the Westminster Confession of Faith – that combination will explain (MOST accurately) the whole story. If you read it, then you’ll know why we say some of the stuff we do.
Again, I hope this helps someone – and answers your questions, Scott.
>> “” researching that was a bit beyond the scope of my blog post “”
“” researching that was a bit beyond the scope of my blog post “”
————————————————————–
Ha. Yeah. Clearly..
Going out of your way to validate some facts to make your argument less subjective and opinions less dogmatic? Nooooo… this is only a blog! Why should the author put forth ANY effort in this post at all??
Isn’t it easier just to slander millions of people’s beliefs? Isn’t it much easier to just fire up Word press and hammer out some empty rhetoric WITHOUT EVEN SO MUCH AS CHECKING ON THE FACTS?
You should just stop writing now. Seriously.
Just walk away from your computer. Your incompetence as a purveyor of information and opinion is so half-assed that it bleeds through your writing like a malcontent teenager angry at his parents.
Beyond the scope of your post????????
You’re calling out religions and feelings and a host of other traditional mentalities that have been in place for thousands of years like you have some sort of authority to do so……………………… and you say RESEARCHING THE STORY THAT INSPIRED IT IS BEYOND YOUR SCOPE.
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Please. Put down the word processor. Turn off your computer. Disconnect your internet. And give your computer to the needy.
The Digg community admires your anonymous avatar. The rest of the world doesn’t even know your name. Now just stop. Walk away. — Trying to be objective, informative, and useful is WAY beyond your scope as well.
There are a few common sense posters on this board, but many comments shows the attitudes of people in these last days are correctly interpeted in 2 Tomothy 3: 1-5.
Most prophecies have been fulfilled during our 20th century, yet the ultimate prophecy is right on the horizon and Matthew 24: 21 suggests the tribulation will be unlike any that has been on the earth since its beginning.
The majority of the population alive on earth today will never grasp the significance of these coming days because it will happen so suddenly, (like a thief in the night)!
On that day Jehovah will reveal his true identity, he will sanctify his great name and his Kingdom will surely come to rule the earth.
Everyone not doing the will of God at that time will be cut off from the earth, homosexuals and their supporters will cease to exist and after the battle of Armageddon, the glorious Jesus Christ will begin resurrecting the world’s dead in preparation for the thousand year reign that will bring mankind back to perfection in order to live on his home (the earth), in peace and security.
The two main elements, governments and religions that have blocked world peace for centuries and all their affiliate followers will be gone.
The ones unprepared to accept this fate, soon to be a reality, they will fall the hardest!
Phizzpop: you can stop making shit up now. I am pretty sure you are pulling this straight out of the burly bowels that make up your ass.
“Something like 35 percent of all teen suicides are because of sexual orientation, and I bet you the majority of those kids were not accepted by their parents, families and communities at the time in their life when they need all of that support the most.”
Hey.
There you go.
Have a GREAT day
I dont think its a christian problem. I am from india and homosexuality is not easy here either. here parents kill themselves if their kids are gay. so lets not bash the religion. its ppl. its a generation of parents who cant accept it the way we can….
Still at this one, huh? OK…I’m not going to be so nice this time.
You’re all the victim of a clever troll! My guess is that ‘Betty’ is probably some thirty-something guy who’s probably reading this thread as we speak, and getting his jollies at having duped the lot of you! Hell…I could be ‘Betty’ for God’s sake!
Still only 9 posts for Betty at that site…hmmm, maybe Betty gave up to go to the memorial services! Hahahaha
I’m telling you…Betty is a TROLL! Someone who drops a bomb in the form of a VERY controversial message that is destined to raise the hackles of a very opinionated population.
OK…maybe I’m wrong.
And then again, Benny Hinn is the ‘REAL DEAL’ too!
Even if this story is a fake, it emphasizes human behavour in a most presentable deplorable state ever in the history of mankind. I’m not saying people didn’t have the notions in prior times, but the openness of things we tolerate today shows we are just as barbaric and perversed as many hundreds of generations before us. Probably more-so!
What makes this present generation so significant today, is with all the advancement in technology, medical, science and most importantly the education factor should have instilled more wisdom in everyone capable of learning, yet we have stooped to the lowest level of stupidity and ignorance ever seen since the beginning of time.
It shows without a doub’t that education has brainwashed and programmed an entire generation to support a system consisting mostly of meism.
No wonder in God’s due time, he will put an end to this system of things.
“It is not a choice, it’s hardwired psychologically. Self control is not the issue, the issue is people like you who feel anyone different than yourself is inferior.”
Negative, the issue here is people like YOU who attempt to put words in other peoples’ mouths. I never said they were inferior. Nor did I even act that way. You take my difference in opinion like I look down on those people. I think what they do is wrong and I feel that they are in complete control. I think that they desperately want to justify that it is “ok” by any means necessary. I personally think that anyone who tries to tell me that it is natural and that they are born that way, are well….full of shit. Sorry. It’s my opinion, trying to tell me that I think they are inferior isn’t going to make me think that they are inferior. Grow up and stop bitching already.
I suppose everyone on here who is blaming the mother doesn’t understand the concept of CONTEXT CLUES. The kid had been in counseling previous to this event, he was having a hard time in school and who knows what else. Even if his mother didn’t say anything to him this could have been the ultimate conclusion just based on peer pressure and self-inflicted values. My girlfriends best friend committed suicide and very very few people even knew he had a problem until they read the note. If you judge this woman because she’s a Christian and that she doesn’t support her son’s homosexual tendencies, then you are just as guilty as anyone. It wasn’t like she told her son to get out of the house or that she doesn’t love him; on the contrary it says that she tried to explain it by her beliefs. Being raised in that home she probably assumed the kid had adopted her beliefs over time and that, if he was still mid-high school, hadn’t decided to branch out of her belief system. She did her best and you demeaning this woman serves no good to anyone. Pray to whatever god you will that the kid gets fair judgment wherever he ends up, but do not judge his mother for “causing his suicide”.
Very correct Daole, every single individual on this earth regardless of circumstances within reason is responsible for his / her actions. Even if the mother suggested the boy kill himself, it is still his action and his alone.
Sane, the frustrations of discussing a topic as controversial as homosexuality is trying at the best of times, and whether anyone wishes to believe it or not, homosexual relationships in society are tolerated, but the majority disapproves of them. That’s why so many expressions have been created to correspond to their cause. Homophobia can be the label of a person who meerly disagrees with gays.
Sexual preference, inferior indifferences are excuses used by homosexuals and their supporters to put the guilt trip on ones who are solely aware of their lack of control.
Also its not the case of whether parents can accept homosexuality as the younger generation has, its family values and strict moral standards that have relaxed to the point of ungodlyness that is at stake. Because of this acceptance which seems normal to most younger people is the reason why many cannot see the pending destruction coming upon the earth.
Sane – We’ve discovered and observed that the sex of a baby is not determined until around 12 weeks when the chromosomes on the baby (XX for girl and XY for boy) spark a flood of estrogen or testosterone into the womb. Since we know what those hormones do, doesn’t that make it fairly reasonable to conclude that altered levels of the hormones (too much of one, too much of the other or not enough of one or the other) will alter a child’s sexual tastes and orientations?
If yes, at that point how can you really call that a choice? If no, I suppose you disagree with my belief that God did not give us reason and intelligence simply so that we would ignore them or not use them.
One could consider the information of chromosome levels altered or not being we have reason and intelligence, therefore to avoid the pitfalls of someone becoming gay, could those chromosone levels also be altered before the baby is born? You bet they can and once again the error of homosexuality still lies with man.
The question of God giving us intelligence simply to ignore is an understatement. Mankind has succumbed to his own independence from divine protection against inperfections by ignoring God’s council from day one with Adam and Eve.
Unfortunately within the course of 6000 years we happen to be living in the time when his intentions is to restore mankind back to perfection just as he originally purposed.
To do this, he has to eliminate this system of things and its supporters and with this the homosexual delemma will disappear forever.
Ronald – In all fairness, I don’t think it’s fair to call it a “dilemma.” These are people we’re talking about. I’m curious whether you think you are more righteous than a homosexual because only then would you be allowed to pass judgment on their behavior. Remember that part about removing the beam from your eye before you try to remove the splinter from your neighbor’s?
You people need to quit being giant babies. She has a view. Her stupid son expressed his view, and she expressed hers. She doesn’t HAVE to be open to it. He’s a flat out emotional idiot. He let his “feelings” get to him because his mom didn’t accept his stupid lifestyle. Oh well. My dad used to tell me I was going to live under a bridge because I didn’t get my school grades up. If I was 90% of this f’d up world, I should be dead because my horrible father yelled at me.
YOU CAN’T MAKE SOMEONE KILL THEMSELVES!
Stories like this, happening every day, echo in my mind words from Moby in this interview, “Everything Is Complicated”:
(http://www.sojo.net/special/multimedia/audio/061004_moby/player.html)
As a parent, I am humbled and scared to be reminded that, despite the BEST of my intentions/REAL love for my son and daughter, I do and will still in the future cause them hurt and pain from the inadequacy of my communication or their interpretation thereof.
As a youth worker, I’m constantly torn between wanting to help teenagers become all they were intended to be, and live a courageous life full of joy and love,…but also always aware that this is not possible if they live emotionally-driven and do not make certain choices counter to what they sincerely feel they “want” or even “need”.
As a Christian (Christ-follower, whatever), I cling to the truth that I am first-loved and redeemed by a Saviour, Jesus, who never once encountered a homosexual, a prostitute, a thief, a liar, a fundamentalist, etc. (WHAT?) Yes, the words we read give these titles to these people who crossed His path,…but, I believe with all my heart that Jesus saw only divinely-created sons and daughters of God, equally loved and blessed with infinite value and gifts to share with others in service while on this planet…though burned, scared, scarred, and influenced by the work of another, whose sole mission is to shame, tear, and destroy.
“Jesus wept” (John 11:35) is the shortest book in the Bible,…but just may be what Jesus finds Himself doing more often these days.
I think He is weeping today, for the son, and the mother…and for us, that our understandable human response to this tragedy might not take from another’s (or our own) worth in anger, but will instead propel us to seek Him for more wisdom, grace, and another way, today.
Remember the iceberg. There’s always more deeper than we can see.
“Jesus, who never once encountered a homosexual, a prostitute, a thief, a liar, a fundamentalist”
You really need to read your bible, dude… And I really doubt Jesus is crying because people won’t be peaceful. He already said he’s coming back to judge the rest of us on earth, this time with a sword.
Richard Dawkins is wrong, Nietzsche was a fool. Wisdom is know by her children.
Homosexuality is a tempting sin, just as heterosexual promiscuous sex, lying, and theft. I believe in the deity of Christ but I don’t believe in persecuting people for their sins, If you choose to sin and live a life in sin that is your choice, and i’ll only try to tell you alternatives if you ask or want to know about them.
Overall though i bet this story is BS and is used to fuel the hatred of Christians so many obviously love to spew as shown in the comments here…
“Homosexuality is a tempting sin” you say SomeLlama? I think its right for you to get out of the closet and accept who you are.
Anonymous again. Would just like to add this. Being gay isnt wrong, but its certainly not right either.
If you think this story is fake, then that’s fine, I personally felt it was plausible (given the responses from other people on the forum). But what exactly would I have done to research it? I got this story from FSTDS, I didn’t find it in the thread myself. I had no reference point with which to research whether Betty’s claims were real; all I had was her screen name.
Why are you so angry? I found at least four sources listing the story (freejesus.net, unidiversal.com, religiousforums.com, and fstds.com). That’s more thorough than Fox News generally is. Did you see the responses of the other posters? It’s obvious there are many people who think just like she does about the matter. It wasn’t a news post — said event happened three years ago and — and the point of the article isn’t just about one isolated incident. Are you saying scenarios like the one I described never happen, or just that I’m wrong because can’t track down a three year old suicide case based on a screenname from a forum?
“” I’m wrong because can’t track down a three year old suicide case based on a screenname from a forum “”
===========================
Enough said right there.
If you feel like you have the right to slander millions of people’s views based on [and I quote] “a three year old suicide case based on a screenname from a forum” [end quote] then you seriously don’t need a blog podium, as minuscule as it may be, to do it.
I know hiding behind the veil of anonymity and a computer screen makes you feel like King of the World and that you can say whatever you want, but think twice next time before you feel compelled to push aggressive thinking to other people (Wow. Sounds a lot like fundamentalism doesn’t it?)
You can use < blockquote > tags for quotes, btw.
I have the right to say whatever I want. It’s called freedom of speech. Just like you can go off on a rant about me without offering any evidence to back it up (I at least have sources, even if they might not be completely verifiable). If you read what myself and many other people here have written, you’d know I’m not just attacking Christianity because of just this isolated case. This is happening all over, and whether this scenario is true is ultimately irrelevant to the overall point I was trying to make.
And however minuscule my “blog podium” may be, yours is yet smaller.
How am I pushing my thinking on you? I just posted this to my blog; you don’t have to read it. (I wasn’t even the one who submitted it to digg or stumbleupon)
This is what fundamentalism sounds like:
You’re hiding behind a veil of anonymity much bigger than mine, my friend. I doubt very much you would say this to someone in person.
If everyone turned a looked away from something they disagreed with we would all be closed-minded people with no gall to confront abrasive notions. Just because I don’t HAVE to read it doesn’t mean I shouldn’t take issue with what is being read.
I’m not saying you don’t have freedom of speech either.
I’m saying you shouldn’t exercise it.
My podium is smaller than yours? I’m sorry I’m not interested in a dick-measuring contest. And I don’t need evidence to back up a rant either. You’ve given me everything I need right here. Opinion or not, you built a very poor argument on even worse grounds.
But it is just your opinion, you say? Fair enough. Everyone is entitled to one. Some are just more wrong than others.
You officially degraded this into a “I-know-you-are-but-what-am-I” mud slinging argument.
My podium is smaller than yours. Okay…
I’m hiding behind a bigger veil of anonymity than you. Okay…
Your daddy makes more money than my daddy. Whatever.
So it’s your opinion that being gay makes one a freak, and you’ve offered nothing to support it. It’s my opinion that fundamentalist Christianity is leading to the oppression of gays, and I’ve not only told a story to support it, I’ve linked to a forum filled with people who mirror Betty’s thoughts on the matter, and are probably feel stronger about it. In addition, I’ve stated several times that it’s implied that scenarios like the one in my post are happening all the time.
If you want to argue about whether my opinion is right, then you can join in the discussion. You, however, decided to just declare yourself the winner and say I didn’t have the right to post anything.
Let me remind you that you were the one who brought up my “minuscule blog podium,” not me. You mentioned I was hiding behind my anonymity (I have my name and home town listed here, you have a screen name). Are you saying it’s okay for you to talk about the size of my blog audience, but I can’t mention the nonexistence of your audience? That it’s okay for you to accuse me of hiding my identity when you give even less information? If you didn’t want this comparison to come up, why did you mention it in the first place?
Reading through these comments, it’s obvious to me that you have added nothing to the discussion. You have just made unsubstantiated claims and thrown around insults.
Scott, I stand corrected on that remark. Delemma may be rather harsh, I would say the “homosexual issue” would be more appropriate.
It would seem that I am passing judgement on these individual souls, but that I assure you is not the case. With the proper help a homosexual person can suppress those desires of ones of his / her own sex. Very seldom do you ever hear stories of ones who put forth effort to do so, its not an easy task, but society reinforces the resistance towards these defilements by claiming its normal behavour, thereby quelling any attempts to change by regulating its acceptance.
Very soon this system of things is going to undertake a massive change by divine intervention and as the Bible clearly brings out, this change does not include homosexuals and other factors. They will not inherit God’s Kingdom. I’m not being judgemental here at all, just relating the message.
You don’t need to remind me of anything.
I know what I said about the medium of choice: I posted it… I just find it comical that you feel the urge to be defensive about it by saying I have an even smaller podium than you do. I’m aware of this lol
I am also very aware of the amount of anonymity on both sides. If I wanted to compare something in the first place I would have talked about how much more I have to compare.
So far all you have managed to contribute besides “Your audience is smaller” or “Your veil is bigger” is basically “Well you started it!”
Want to talk about support? Try starting with the story which inspired all of this. I’m obviously not the only one who thinks its fake. You even said yourself it could be fake.
What kind of support is that? Nevermind the fact you don’t even care about trying to find out if it’s true before getting on your soap box. The only thing you can offer for support is that it is “implied” that this sort of thing happens every day or something…
MY support is that it’s obvious an intelligent mind wouldn’t soak up an obviously questionable tale of “Betty and Bobby” then turn around and slander beliefs of other people based on “implications” as you so pithily put it.
I do care whether it’s true or not, but I’ve given it the benefit of the doubt because it’s a good example of a problem we should be dealing with. I don’t see how it’s obviously fake, however. The other users of the forum it was posted on didn’t seem to think it was out of the ordinary. Others here and in the digg comments have listed statistics showing that gays/lesbians have a much higher than average chance of committing suicide.
What about your statement that homosexuality makes one a freak?
In closing:
Your argument, after admitting the possibility of fakeness, is that you THINK – with no proof, facts or anything else – that Christianity causes homosexuals to kill themselves every day. You can’t even do anything but “imply” this. You said so yourself.
Armed with a fake story, you use it to slander beliefs of other people as if THEIR beliefs killed someone. Not only that, but you use a possible fake scenario to blanket accusations across millions of people and point at them as the cause of death every day which you can’t even proove.
On top of it all, you preach about needing support for statements in this discussion without so much as critiquing the validity of the very story which your own argument is built on.
Next time: grain of salt.
I do admit that the story I posted could possibly be fake, but again I found it plausible because of the reception Betty got in the forum. As you said you aren’t the only one to find it fake, I’m not the only one to find it plausible. I didn’t say all I could do was imply. I said I implied it in the blog post. Many people in the comments (both here and at digg) have agreed with me on this, with even a few gay people posting about their own attempted suicides. If you doubt it’s common, try a google search. After a single search I found this:
Again you digress the argument!
I never once said I doubted their suicide rate or chance thereof. However, your own argument here is baseless!
There’s not one reference in that very source which attributes their chance of committing suicide to fundamentalist Christianity.
So the only thing you can “imply” here is that this rate, and that fake story, somehow connect. A very poor argument by any standard. Especially poor grounds for condemning beliefs of millions of people.
orly?
IMO the anti-gay environment in America is due to Christians like you who openly state that homosexuals are “freaks.” I guarantee you that almost every homophobic comment both here and at digg is from a religious person. If you disagree with my opinion, then you can explain why.
You haven’t proven it to be a fake story, and while I don’t have enough information to verify it, I have shown why it’s plausible. Besides, you’re missing the point of my blog post. The point was not to condemn Christianity just because one person died, but because this sort of thing is happening. Period.
At first this reeked of fakeness, then I read the responses on the forum, and this thing looks legit. I can’t believe there were so many people that agreed with that woman! Arg,
“I know hiding behind the veil of anonymity and a computer screen makes you feel like King of the World and that you can say whatever you want, but think twice next time before you feel compelled to push aggressive thinking to other people”
Wow, you seem angry. Whats wrong, upset that someone doesn’t agree that gays are freaks?
“that fake story”
You havent provided any evidence why you think its fake. You jsut said it is.
“There’s not one reference in that very source which attributes their chance of committing suicide to fundamentalist Christianity.”
So it’s all just one big coincidence?
This is probably fake, but it still brings up an important issue. Fundamentalist Christianity really is dangerous, and it’s a problem we’re going to have to deal with soon.
I thought this was fake, but then I found this: http://www.freejesus.net/home/viewtopic.php?t=5423&highlight=
Some of you homohpobes commenting here would fit right in on that forum.
Nice article. It’s not every day you see a high schooler thinking for himself. Good luck, and keep writing!
All you need to condemn millions of people is some book told you being gay was bad.
Forgot to say: DiJay Veen is a bigot and a moron.
I replied to phizzpop the way I did because saying: “Something like 35 percent of all teen suicides are because of sexual orientation” is different than saying “Gay men are six times more likely to attempt suicide than their straight counterparts.”
One is claiming it’s statistically factual that 1 out of 3 teen suicides is due to being gay.
The other is saying they’re more likely to commit suicide.
You still, on any firm ground, cannot claim on sheer plausibility alone that Christianity “caused his death — if there was no Christianity, he would still be alive.” That statement alone is incredibly asinine….
There is one and ONLY one thing that caused his death: and that is him.
Noted
your a good writer. btw im in high school too and i agree with you
Kudo’s to Ronald. Scott, and DiJayVeen, who have managed to remain mature and have an intelligent discussion about their opinions on this topic, instead of pointing fingers saying who is to blame. (Christianity as a whole, the mother, Jesus…etc). I have respect for people who can discuss things of this nature WHILE disagreeing without intentionally blowing a head gasket and insulting one another. THIS is the way that EVERYONE should be acting in this thread. Anyone who does not, appears to be unintelligent and immature.
You call dijay veen mature and intelligent? You must not have seen his first comment on this post:
Clearly he was kidding…but then again maybe not. That isn’t insulting. I believe….yeah…if you kill yourself over something like this (obviously the kid had bigger problems than just his sexual problems…either way he OVER REACTED) I’d venture to call someone a “freak”. The kid was obviously ashamed. I think we should all be ashamed of who we really are anyway. We are ALL filthy and full of sin.
Back on the original topic, I don’t hate Betty, I pity her. Practicing a faith is fine (I’m an atheist myself), but when you become so obsessed with it that you put its values before the well-being of your child, something simply isn’t right.
what’s funny about all this is the insistence that someone in this farce is right or wrong. considering that the justification of right or wrong is a matter of intention, then would it not be applicable to say that she did right by her intentions and he did right by acting on his suffering?
personally, i think the human race is collective mass of opinionated idiocy that needs a wake up call. we try so hard to push whatever we feel is the proper way to handle something, and yet when something happens to ourselves, we’re so quick to blame everything but ourselves.
It’s the saem as trying to misuse a firearm. the point of a gun is fire a projectile at high speed toward a target. the gun makes no preconceptive notions of the target in question. So it is down to the user.
If the mother felt she did right, then we cannot blame her, no matter what our supposed individual moralities tell us, but then we cannot judge the boy either, we can only accep what has happened and move on.
granted her words had an effect and that effect resulted in her son’s death, but who are we to say she did right or wrong? Are we in any position to judge her when we ourselves make choices that we know to be wrong?
I smell fake.
Fake “comment”, fake article, fake everything, hyped for the red meat diet of Leftards.
I seriously doubt that’s what he meant…
One less Fag
It is NOT ok to be queer and its not ok for queers to take our perfectly good word–gay–and pervert it. Gay means happy and queers are not happy.
Ronald – This thread of discussion seems to be winding to a close but I have found you interesting. My forum is linked off of my name and I’d be happy to have more discussions with you on different topics in the future whether they just be you and I on the Christian forum at my site (it’s rather depopulated now) or just in e-mail correspondence.
Sane – Thanks and kudos to you as well. There have been a few people here that have impressed me as intelligent people willing and able to debate in a coherent manner, both Christian and atheist, but, largely, many seem moved to just get emotional and start swinging away. Same invitation to Ronald goes for you too.
Anonymous – As I told a previous poster, to “deal” with Christians will be a sticky proposition since we outnumber you and a fairly large percentage of us are stubborn enough to stick to our religion. May I suggest you just continue to enjoy the pluralistic country the United States is that allows you to air your views freely and fully without punishment? Trying to deal with Christians aggressively is just going to make sane discussion between Christians and atheists more strained, less common and contribute to a more unfortunate situation.
Learn to read your Bible – I’m sorry to see you haven’t returned with a pithy reply.
I was so looking forward to being schooled again. 
Come on people, the quote is obviously manufactured. As if anyone would actually put that on a website. Smells like a hoax to me. The whole thing sounds incredibly manufactured.
http://www.freejesus.net/home/viewtopic.php?t=5423&highlight=
Like Karl Max said “Religion is the opium of the people”
Im not sure if i would come out after that.
ohhh are you kidding me!?!?.. nobody would ever put this on a website if it were true!
if she is so ashamed of his sons sexuality she would never publish it for everybody to see…
Ok I am not religious but Christianity is not all that bad, some people have just all misunderstood what it stands for…. Like here in Iceland where I live, most of the people are very relaxed about gay people, except the ones who don´t know anything about homo sexuality. (like that priest that thinks homo sexuality is an illness:P… but anyway..)
And by the way; “no queers” you are wrong, gay people are happy… or most of them at least, they are just normal like “everybody else”, except for their sexuality.
Of course it is hard to be happy if you are not accepted in the community.
One of my best friend is gay and I could not find a happier person.
And you who think gay people should not be accepted… you are not very bright!! :/
The point of Christianity is not to exploit or degrade a homosexual person, it is in the same terms as loving your enemies. If a person can receive Christian councelling where they can begin to suppress those unatural desires for an individual of the same sex through Jehovah God’s help, then that is the purpose in mind and the responsibility of all true Christians.
If the person is unresponsive to accept help to change his / her sinful ways, they must still be treated with respect, but any association with that person must also end.
Anyone who has accurate knowledge of the scriptures and follows the will of God, understands his view pertaining to homosexuality and the continued association with people who are homosexual and ones who support them would undermine their own faith.
Unfortunately there are many confessed Christians who are led to believe they can still support homosexuality while they serve God. Make no mistake about it, God’s purpose is not in harmony with the philosphy of man!
How do you think she is gonna feel If she see’s this? You can’t blame her. It’s his foult Not hers. He decided to take his life and though she said these things (which I think is wrong) there has to be lots of reasons why he did this. But It’s never someone elses foult. You should be a shamed of youre self for publishing this on the Internet. Youre not any better than her.
This might be fake, I\’m not sure, but it still brings up an important issue. This is the last battlefield of civil rights left in our country.
This is certainly fake. Obviously contrived. I’m sorry you were so gullible you bought this troll’s story without second thoughts. The poster is probably some gay guy out to attack the Bible-thumpers with his contrived tale of pity and woe.
How gay can you get?
Moonbats ate it up. Lol.
Gays don’t have to print up false stories in order to attack Bible thumpers, or anyone else who happens to be in opposition to their lifestyles. All they have to do is act naturally according to their own errors as spoken by God himself and they can take it from there.
Even if this story is false, there probably has been a similiar incident that could be based on true experiences.
Look that kid killed himself because he did not know left from right! i hate suicide, i had to deal with my 12 year old brother who came home the other day crying because his friend hung himself with a belt in his closet! the kid was 12!!!!! at first, since i am an investigator for the PD, i was going to attack the family for the situation. but as i read the investigation reports it was clearly the childs decision, it was a terrible dicision because now we are all left mourning his death! suicide is a very selfish action and the mother of this child who killed himself was not because his mother was a christian, you cant get up and say you hate christianity, the mother loved her child, homosexuality is NOT a normal thing, if it was their would be no sicknesses in the action that could be deadly. and you can say “oh well regular couples can get STD’s” but those are from foolish college students who hump anything that comes their way! you cant blame the mother, she tried, she loves her son and for you to get up and say she did not is clearly wrong! why dont you talk to that mother yourself before you write a blog about it for everyone else to see! I think you should go get a job at CNN they are always looking for liberal atheist who dont know an ass from a hole in the ground!
“Religion is poison.”
I second that, S
ok I’m sorry I scrolled down fast efter reading some coments posted here! I’m an Ex druggy and I live in Iceland! I’m afraid that all you people who are expressing hate for this woman who happens to be a christian and belive that beeing gay is wrong,are just as guilty as the “Christians and other riligions you are slamming down for there hate ! one good thing I learnd from reading my bible was DONT CAST THE FIRST STONE! most of the time your guilty of the same thing or worse! and stop this whole thing about its just christians! Cos its not! a lot of people who dont belive anything hate poeple who are gay! so dont give me all this crap that its only Christians! cos its Bull Shitt!
sad story man, i feel sorry for that kid
This story is true.
I know because I am Betty’s son.
I’ve already committed suicide twice on two different web sites.
When will my mother learn to accept me?
Maybe when she posts her story again on a third web site, jerks some more people around, she’ll change her mind and not make me commit suicide again.
===
More seriously, this hoax (which some people are defending as fake but accurate) is like a lot of what is on YouTube. People make videos that are designed to look like real home movies, but sex them up so they will be more interesting to watch than ordinary boring home movies.
You get stuff like “LonelyGirl” pretending to be a dumb emo girl, some bride supposedly freaking out before her wedding and cutting off her hair (you’ve seen it), etc.
So as we move into the future where it’s possible to share our experiences, we’ll end up getting less information out of it because so much of the info we pick up will be phony, designed to manipulate, etc.
How long before a phony “ex-gay” creep uploads some videos to YouTube about how happy he is that Jesus made him straight? Then it’s just a matter of time before someone uploads a video of him in a gay bar. Then the big question will be whether he really is an ex-gay who went back to being gay, or if the whole thing was a plot by gay activists from the very beginning.
There’s only one smart thing to do: don’t get caught up in all this stupid shit.
Search youtube for “Ted Haggard”
all u ppl are way too hypocrytical i dont believe that in any way was it the mothers fault that her son killed himself if someone tells u their belief or opinion on ur daily doings if they are unjust in any way are u going to kill yourself? obviously u should all take the time to find out more about the bible and ask yourself if there was something else that drove him to kill himself… his mother didnt encourage him to kill himself in any way why dont you all go and see if all your parents would support you in being gay 100% and if they do than u have nothing to worry about u wont be killing yourself any time soon
Unfortunately, brainwashing really works.
Religions brainwash people into believing all sorts of things.
The action and reaction of the mother is quite normal, she believes herself to be right, she truly believes she is helping her son with the advice and council she has given.
What is truly unfortunate is that she was unable to understand that her own son could harbour different beliefs, and that him doing so was not wrong. While this may have contributed towards her sons death, there is a wider problem. Both mother and son live in a society that cannot accept those that do not conform to their beliefs. Therefore the society is also culpable.
It is all very well expressing hatred for those that were involved in this sad chain of events, but these people need our help, they need to be loved, they need to understand that people that do not conform to their beliefs are also good people.
The differences between people are what make people interesting, not threatening and certainly not something to be feared.
These are simple concepts.
Sometimes the simplest of concepts are the most difficult to believe.
Fare well fellow travellers……….. FabreFaction
It is sick seeing how this childs mother wouldn’t approve of being gay or not. he will still be that same person just instead of girls he likes guys. im not saying it was her fault because of his death but i did think he thought to himself knowone likes me and ever will like me so then he just thought the next best thing was to kill himself. im very sorry about ur death bettey but next time u should choose your words wisely when your talking to depressed confused children!!
This entire page is profound.
I can’t believe I wasted so much time reading all the comments that have been left.
Self reflection, something that always needs to be considered.
I feel like making a very general statement, so here it is.
If we were all devout Buddhists, this story, whether it be true or contrived, would never have happened.
As for those of you who think homosexuality is immoral, when last I looked, so was bigotry.
Ridiculous. Let’s be objective here. How can you blame the mother for the actions of her son? She obviously loves her son. She obviously wants to find the best way to help her son based upon her beliefs. And he goes off an kills himself.
How can you blame Christianity for this? Her son killed himself. Her son was an unstable idiot; the fact that he was gay doesn’t even matter. Plenty of people don’t get accepted for being gay (the vast majority, actually), but not all of them kill themselves. And plenty of people kill themselves for all sorts of different reasons. No, what drove him to suicide was probably a build up of events and his lack of foresight and will.
I blame gay activism. In a way, it is more directly responsible for this chain of events. By encouraging kids to come out before they are ready and willing to accept the reprecussions, you are literally putting a loaded gun into their hands. You can blame Christianity for setting up this bias against homosexuals, but western morality is defined by Christianity (not Buddhism).
And I am surprised by people who think religion brainwashes people. You don’t need religion to brainwash people, people brainwash themselves. Religion is used for good. Their goals are what they believe are good. As mentioned before, society as a whole believes they are good too. So I ask you: how can those people who help the needy be good, yet cause teenagers to kill themselves, being bad?
Bigotry is not immoral; it is ironic that somebody mentioned this, with all the Christian-bashing going on.
SemperV: You’re actually claiming that bigotry isn’t immoral and that this whole thing is the fault of gay activists who convinced the child that homosexuality is okay, yet you say religion doesn’t brainwash people?
… irony overload O_O
This is a sad story, and unfortunately it happens often. It is sad that so many people are hated because of their sexuality or race. I am a straight mother of two boys. One is 10 and the other 13. I am not a religious person, but I encourage my sons to make their own choices in life. I provide them with the information they seek. My 10 year old decided at 6 he wanted to be a Lutheran. My 13 year old has been a Christian since he was 11. Both of them talk to me about all matters in their lives and ask my opinion. My 10 year old would tell you I am the most honest person in the world. We have had all the talks when they were very young, and still have them today. They both know if they prefer men over women that I would accept them completely. I love them and I will help them in any way possible. I am often ridiculed because of the things I believe, but I have wonderful relationships with both of my children. I guess my point behind my story is, hate will get us nowhere, open communication is all that matters. Children are little people and should be treated as such. I am not sure we have the right to enforce policies of choice into their minds. If they are guided correctly they will make good decisions. Besides children often find role models in their parents, that is why so many of us turn out like them or are against everything they believe. Often it is the controlling parent children do not want to be like. I take my own mother as an example. She hated life, god, and people. I hate no one, not even god if there is one.
Absolute Crap
I really don’t know why everyone has to be so negative and place blame.What we all just read is a terrible and sad story of a young person taking his own life.None of us are close enough to the situtation to be telling others how they should have acted.This is just a sad story that makes me take a second look around at myself and the people i care about.I do agree that rejecting the boys feelings so intensely may not have been the best course of action, but then again i was not there so i cannot say. There is only one thing that i want to get across here. How we treat each other has an imense impact on each others lives and that all people should try to be kind and understanding of one another and do their best to always take peoples true feelings to heart.
I feel for this women and her family and deeply for the boy. I really do hope he is somewhere better regardless of where that maybe, and that everyone here can hopefully learn from this sad and horrible event.
It’s quite clear to me that many of the commentators are non-Christians, or do not know the true Christianity that’s stuck behind the wall of “traditional” Christianity, those Churches that perform certain rites because “they’ve always done that”, despite the fact it isn’t mentioned in the bible at all.
Betty appears to me to be one of the “sheep” Christians. That is to say that despite the fact that she sincerely means the best for her son and sincerely believes she was right, that she is what you might call “blinded by the light”… she forgot that her son quite obviously didn’t believe the same thing as she did, or he wouldn’t have been gay. Had she been more considerate of her son’s situation rather than his eventual end, she could have helped.
As Christians, we have to remember that not everyone thinks the same as we do, and be careful not to come out with things that, although acceptable within a group of Christians, seems like some holy and righteous babble to anyone else… why? because it drives people away. It’s about time Christians started making it a modern faith than an old religion. It’s not about religion, religious icons, idols, rituals or anything physical (and this is why having pictures and icons of Jesus is a bad thing), it’s about faith. “We live by faith, not by sight” 2 Corinthians 5:7
So, go easy on Christians as a group, we’re not all as lacking in understanding as Betty. I help many, many people, and I know when it is appropriate to give Christian advice or not to.
That’s all I have to say.
…well that’s not all I had to say really. I thought I should make it clear that I considered Christianity for several years before I decided I should go for it. I was never forced, coerced or otherwise, into it. I have plenty of experience in the real world and I still try to understand how some things are justified. That another thing with Christianity, is to seek a deeper understanding, not to just accept what we’re told on the surface.
Anybody ever heard of the term HOMOPHOBIC well i have and ur afriad of gays so dont have any queerbags come near you if your what some people call “HOMOPHOBIC”
I have grown up a Christian all my life and after reading the ensuing chaos that is this “Born Again Christianity”, this poor child’s suicide being one of them, I feel not only hesitation in calling myself a Christian, but contempt! Betty is one of the far too many indoctrinated, brainwashed, bigoted Christians that seem to define the doctrine of Christianity. I think that is seriously fucked up and in due regard to the latest Christian protests against Muslims and homosexuals, I can no longer find a coherent debate for the conversion to Christianity, not that I would ever try that whole evangelizing bullshit. However, apparently the only resulting consequences/benefits of Christianity are detrimental at best.
I wish there would either be no religion at all, or no titles given to religion, for these bigoted Christians will be quite shocked to discover that the people they hate have the same, and most of the time better, moral values than they themselves profess to. Anyone who is able to see this inherent paradox in religious strife should read “An argument against the abolition of Christianity” – by Jonathon Swift: I think you will find it provocative…
What gets me is not anything to do with the original story [true or false, does not matter] but the fact that Christianity seems to approve of random sections of the bible and then just ignore other parts.
Many Christians I have spoken to have never read the bible from cover to cover, and certainly the majority would not be able to quote, if asked, any of the verses that their principles and morales stem from.
I don’t understand how people can follow a belief system when they don’t even understand first-hand where it came from.
For example – “Women should be silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak, but should be submissive, as the law also says.” (1 Corinthians 14:34)
Doesn’t happen. Why not? It’s in the bible. Shouldn’t every Christian woman comply with this?
“One of illegitimate birth shall not enter the congregation of the Lord.” (Deuteronomy 23:2)
Really? Would all of the Christians out there agree that any any all bastard children should go to hell, go directly to hell, do not pass go? I don’t think so.
Or how about Deuteronomy 25:5-9? “If brethren dwell together, and one of them die, and have no child, the wife of the dead shall not marry without unto a stranger: her husband’s brother shall go in unto her, and take her to him to wife, and perform the duty of an husband’s brother unto her.”
Interesting! I wasn’t aware that every Christian brother-in-law would pick up where their bro’ left off! Who knew. I do wonder what happens to the other wives in the picture.
You obviously understand the point I’m making. It’s random.
I just don’t understand how a book filled with these sorts of statements can be a rule book for modern living when even the people who say they follow it don’t REALLY follow it all. How do you pick and choose? Who decides?
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The main problem with fundamentalist Christians is that they believe they have a God-given right to force their views on everyone else, including those who don’t share it. The fundamentalists who accuse others of bigotry are misleading; this is a favorite ploy of conservative Christians to justify the formation of a Christian state. I detest fundamentalist belief but don’t try to stop others from thinking it. I do, however, have a problem with someone trying to force me to do things THEIR way because ‘the Bible says this’ or ‘Pat Robertson says that’, which I will never accept. I saw the thread that linked to here, and was astonished at the hate-filled statements coming from the administrator of that board. It is very sad that this woman’s son killed himself because his mother chose her faith over her son. Sadly this is all too common with fundamentalists of ALL stripes – Muslim, Christian or otherwise. There are plenty of mainstream Christian churches I don’t have a problem with (though I don’t attend church). It’s fundamentalists who want to force me to follow their personal moral code as defined by a book that’s thousands of years old that I have a problem with.
Having said that, I don’t want to force fundamentalists to change their beliefs – that would be futile. I’m just saying to them – DON’T try to force me to change mine, or anyone else’s.
Being gay is not a natural thing. However, God has clearly instructed us of the law– Love thy neighbor as you love yourself. If we put our entire trust in the Lord, he will see us through anything. Let’s love everyone! but keep thy commandments and if someone doesn’t, love them even more.
you can’t blame god man has free wil
i agree kelly being gay is not right. But god’s not to blame
Im born again, and i don’t think that people know what being a christian is all about. None christain judge us why
Okay, Anonymous (79.65.102.103)… if you want to say something say it in one comment, not three.
This is.. awful.
This is the reason I dislike Christian beliefs. Their religion is immature, and they believe that they are doing right by following a book written by MAN.
That woman did kill her son, though indirectly. Her son was hurting and turned to her for comfort, and she told him he was wrong for feeling that way. His own Mother rejected him! I don’t see how anyone can deny that fact.
Homosexuality is not wrong, and homophobes have to be among the most ignorant people on the planet.
As much as I disliked Christianity before, I’m absolutely disgusted by it now. I can’t believe anyone would let themselves become that brainwashed.
Christians do not care who dies, as long as they are “saved” or are stopped from damning others or themselves. The idea of an afterlife frees them to be very DEVIL MAY CARE about it, as long as it was all for a Christian cause, any deaths, including genocide, may be justified, since in their minds it will mean more good people going to heaven. They don’t give a damn about this world which is why they are wrecking it.. and the lives of many.
Hate is the most appropriate word to be directed at murderers. I agree with you – I don’t care what she thought, what she believed. You can’t believe things like that through logic; it has to be a willful choice. If you are willfully deceiving yourself to the point that someone dies because of you, you might as well have put a gun to their head and pulled the trigger.
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You may have just described a worse form of child abuse than any beating or round of cigarette burns.
I was raised in church and believe in God with all my heart although I do not believe in structured religion. Who’s to say who’s right and who’s wrong? Catholics believe it’s OK to drink meanwhile Baptist do not. With that being said, I have a nephew who recently came out and said that he has known that he was different since he was little. We knew he was different when he was little. He was obsessed with being a witch; he wanted his nails painted all the time. He was never a boy, boy he was always more famine. So after watching him grow up there is no one that can convince me that they are not born that way. I really hope that people wake up and realize that they are humans. We are dealing with lives here and no life is any more precious than the others I don’t care how you believe. His parents are not handling it well at all and I’m so fearful for him.
I just noticed all the spelling mistakes I made in that entry. I guess proofing it would have been nice. Sorry folks! I have such strong feelings about this. I’m just hoping to God my nephew doesn’t end up like this story.
Hello,
You are wrong, Christianity didn’t kill this child, but a culmination of terrible events and circumstances. Christianity when fundamental can be dangerous, but it is a choice of the individual to practice it in such closed way. We the rest of society do not do this, but we accept and embrace that which we do not approve of, that is the Christian way. Love thy neighbor and forgive all, many forget. Think about it, most democratic and liberal societies are those were Christians live. It takes time but we will get there.
Wow! This post really generated a hell of a lot of comments! Hi MG by way of Jon Swift’s post our best of 2007 posts.
This is great! Been poking around your blog and I like it! This post in particular is really sad! After reading the threads from the Evang Christians in response to the mother’s sadness it really gets to me. I maybe would not go so far as to say that I hate all Christianity (there are many Christians who believe quietly and without imposing their beliefs on others) but as a non-believer I do think that fundamentalist evangelical christianity is really bad news. In this case, it proved deadly.
It takes a very disturbed mother to murder a son. It takes a very great evil to drive an otherwise ‘sane’ person (If we can call this wretch that) to murder a child.
I, too, found this whole post so incredibly sad.
How sad for that young man that most likely the one person who understood him(therapist) was removed form his support system.
These people scare me. I happen to watch Jesus Camp last night.
All I could think of was “American Taliban”.
Wherever I see or hear about people like this I think we have our own homegrown terrorists that have at this point not turned against us.
But what happens if they don’t get what they want and they feel threatened.?
Will we become their enemy, an impediment to their salvation?
you can’t blame it on religion about what happened but that mother was wrong she should have just excepted her son how he was god would have, what ever she has been taught in her life was wrong and yes played a big part in her son killing his self. I am a christian and i have many beliefs but i also believe that people should treat each other as they want to be treated, how would that mother have felt if it were he telling her parents that she would have wanted them to except her not put her down.
I hate religion. I hate religious nutjobs. I don’t believe in the lord. If my belief system is wrong, may I be struck by ligh–shit I’m blind. I’M BLIND! Oh wait, no, I just had my eyes closed. I hate religion and all it stands for. God (which I only capitalize because it is the first word in this sentence) is an imaginary friend for adults. Religion is a crutch for the weak minded and the biggest killer of man on Earth. Or is that just me?
I don’t think Christianity can be blamed. Whilst not techically Christian myself, I acknowledge that its basic ideals are good: love one another and believe in something greater than yourself. Fundamentalists such as this woman are not truly Christian, in my opinion, because rather than living by those two ultimate truths they allow themselves to be caught up in all sorts of stupid “rules” like this unacceptance of homosexuality.
This is sort of spiralling into a debate over whether God exists or not, but I don’t really think that’s the underlying issue presented by this article. I don’t think there’s anyone here who wouldn’t agree that the woman was wrong in her actions. The question is, why? Because homosexuality is, in fact, natural and not to be suppressed? Because one ought to side with one’s family rather than culture? Because God himself would urge her to love her son, no matter what his sexual orientation? Or for all those reasons?
Whatever the answer, if there is an answer, I’ve definitely come away having learned something. Thanks to the person who posted this, it’s certainly given me something to think about. And yes, I too am sickened.
~Sophia
rob2e: Go fuck you mother. atheist asshole.
rob2e: Dickface.
Excellent post.Keep up the smashing work,You should definitely have to keep updating your site
Yes, I agree. That’s superb recommendation and I hope I might take that advice. By the way in which, thanks…
ISIAIh 41 BRING forth your IDOLS did they PREACH to you see they can’t speak they can’t DO ANYTHING all they do is cause confusion. spalms 115 and spalms 135 thier IDOLS are FALSE cant speak can’t hear cant smell and those that make them shall become like them. Jeremiah 10 they nail their IDOL down like a scarecrow it can’t move can’t speak can’t move must be carried these are nothing but the WORK of CON men. john 10 jesus christ sais his sheep hear his voice and another voice thy will not follow and if another person tries to preach to them they WILL FLEE from him. jeremiah 5 the priests bear rule on their own authority what will you do when your judged my word is not inside them. Now here is the kicker john 5 son of man voice goes back in time mathew 16 jesus christ claims to be the son of man. 1 cor2 mind of CHRIST preached internally and john 16 sais the spirit of truth comes in the future. Ezekiel 13 lying prophets of ISRAEL my word is not inside them saying god sais god sais god sais wrote hoping mankind would CONFIRM their WORDS. all of this is EASILY verifiableSee More.
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